[B-Greek] Ephesians 2:1 What kind of dative in ONTAS NEKROUS TOIS?

William Ross woundedegomusic at gmail.com
Sun Aug 13 07:55:22 EDT 2006


The Dative of Cause is not only "on the menu" of choices for translating

EGW DE LIMW hWDE APOLLUMAI

but rather compelling. "dying to hunger" or "dying with reference to hunger"
are not really options.

But "being dead to your trespasses and sins" is actually a very natural
read, given the large part of Paul's teaching it occupies. Why do you avoid
that translation in favor of a more rare, specialized dative?

You originally suggested Dative of Reference (which seems to me to be the
obvious reading) but then found something in the subsequent text that seemed
to invalidate that reading in your mind. What precisely was the compelling
factor in the subsequent text that changed your mind?

Thanks,

William Ross
VGB, Argentina


On 8/13/06, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  I would tend to also call that a dative of instrument.  It really doesn't
> matter what flavor name we put on it.  It could be butter almond or mint
> chocolate chip for that matter.  To the Greek it would simply have been a
> dative.  The important point is to remember that it can be used in this
> fashion.
>
> _____________
>
>
> *William Ross <woundedegomusic at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> Thank you for the clarification, Goerge. I am wondering if your
> translation
> does not reflect that you are thinking more of a "dative of cause" such as
> found in Luke 15:7?
>
> EGW DE LIMW hWDE APOLLUMAI
>
> "...but I am here starving to death"
>
> Might that be what you are thinking?
>
> What is your objection to a simple dative? "being dead to"?
>
> William Ross
> VGB, Argentina
>
>
> On 8/13/06, George F Somsel wrote:
> >
> > You are correct, I would not translate it as "dead in." I rather think
> > that a better translation would be "But when you were dead through your
> > offenses and sins [2] in which you then lived according to the spirit of
> the
> > current world age . . . [5] and we being dead through offenses he made
> [us]
> > alive through Christ"
> >
> > ___________
> >
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>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
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