[B-Greek] aorist subjunctive in John 15:8

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Aug 18 20:24:10 EDT 2006


On Aug 18, 2006, at 6:16 PM, Craig J wrote:

>> I was just curious how most of you would translate the aorist
>> subjunctive in John 15:8.  Many translations use "prove to
>> be" rather than "become."  This is interesting to me
>> especially in relation to John 12:36, which contains the
>> exact form of the lexeme, but is translated "become" by the
>> same translations which have it as "prove to be" in John
>> 15:8.  Thank you for your input.
>>
>> Matthew Rondeau
>
> John 15:8 EN TOUTWi EDOXASQH hO PATHR MOU hINA KARPON POLUN FERHTE KAI
> GENHSQE EMOI MAQHTAI
>
> Perhaps it is just too interpretative on the part of the  
> translators. Maybe
> they were theologically uncomfortable to have "become" linked with  
> works
> ("fruit", 15:8), but not so uncomfortable when linked with faith  
> ("believe",
> 12:36)..?
>
> It seems to me one may as well translate it simply as "and be my  
> disciples"
> rather than say "and so prove to be my disciples" (ESV).  
> Alternatively could
> use 'become' instead of 'be', if the change of condition is being  
> emphasised
> rather than the state of being. Not sure how significant the Aorist is
> here..?
>
> In my BAGD (2nd edition, 1979), I would think it is either usage I. 
> 4.a. (of
> persons and things which change their nature, to indicate their  
> entering a
> new condition: become something) or usage II.1. (as a substitute  
> for the
> forms of EIMI), pp160-161.

I was going to suggest earlier (but thought it hardly worth  
mentioning) that "be" would be quite appropriate for GENHSQE. As  
there is no aorist of EINAI, the aorist of GENESQAI can serve the  
function and often seems to do so.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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