[B-Greek] John 1:18

Jason Hare jaihare at gmail.com
Thu Aug 24 22:34:08 EDT 2006


This very well and good, I do not think that MONOGENHS necessarily
carries the idea of "begotten," does it? From what I have heard (and I
remember seeing this on this list some time ago), MONOGENHS does not
bear this meaning but simply means "unique" or "one-of-a-kind."
PROTOTOKOS (from your citations) is clearly a different case, but how
does that apply to John 1:18?

Jason


On 8/24/06, Dave Smith (REL110, 211,212) <rel21x at charter.net> wrote:
> Friends and scholars,
>
> The concept of the begotten-God was well known in early 2nd century
> Christianity and used c. 132 C. E. or before by Justin Martyr, who equated
> the son with the begotten-God and the Father with the
> unbegotten/AGENNHTOS-God (Dialogue, 126). Justin illustrated this idea as
> saying the son came from the Father as fire from fire (Dialogue, 128), to
> show that the essence is/was not divided. This was only one of the concepts
> that He attached to the son, another more significant was the SPERMATIKOS
> LOGOS, which preceded the incarnation and whose influence Justin traced
> through wise men and philosophers of the past.
>
> The folowing are a few selections from Justin Martyr speaking with Trypho, a
> Jewish man, to demonstrate that the idea of Jesus being the begotten/first
> begotten/God and the Father being the unbegotten-God were used in early
> Christianity and understood by Jewish hearers:
>
> ...for God alone is unbegotten and incorruptible, and therefore He is God,
> but all other things after Him are created ... For that which is unbegotten
> is similar to, equal to, and the same with that which is unbegotten; and
> neither in power nor in honour should the one be preferred to the other, and
> hence there are not many things which are unbegotten: for if there were some
> difference between them, you would not discover the cause of the difference,
> though you searched for it; but after letting the mind ever wander to
> infinity, you would at length, wearied out, take your stand on one
> Unbegotten, and say that this is the Cause of all. Did such escape the
> observation of Plato and Pythagoras, those wise men, "I said, "who have been
> as a wall and fortress of philosophy to us? ' ( Dialogue, 5)
>
> I shall not understand intelligently, but just as your teachers suppose,
> fancying that the Father of all, the unbegotten God, has hands and feet, and
> fingers, and a soul, like a composite being; and they for this reason teach
> that it was the Father Himself who appeared to Abraham and to Jacob.
> (Dialogue, 114)
>
> For if you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would
> not have denied that He was God, Son of the only, unbegotten, unutterable
> God.(Dialogue, 126)
>
> ...the Father of the universe has a Son; who is both LOGOS and PRWTOTOKOS of
> God, and indeed is God.. (1 Apology, 63)
>
> The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all
> things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the
> Begetter...(Dialogue, 61)
>
> For I have already proved that He was the only-begotten of the Father of all
> things, being begotten in a peculiar manner Word and Power by Him, and
> having afterwards become man through the Virgin, as we have learned from the
> memoirs.(Dialogue, 55)
>
> Now I have proved at length that Christ is called God. (Dialogue, 124)
>
> For if you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would
> not have denied that He was God, Son of the only, unbegotten, unutterable
> God. (Dialogue, 126)
>
>
>
> Dave Smith
> Hudson, NC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Thackery" <tthackery at gmail.com>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 09:54
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 1:18
>
>
>
> I respectfully find the explanation lacking.  I point to Bart
> Ehrman's response on the subject where this issue also ended in
> stalemate:  http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/
> html4/1998-01/22538.html
>
> fin.
> Thomas Thackery
> California, USA
>
> On Aug 23, 2006, at 11:51 PM, Harold Derksen wrote:
>
> All,
>
> Perhaps a bit of lenience will be granted for responding to the
> subject raised here.
>
> Hello Thomas,
>
> A Jewish audience, or perhaps even an orthodox Christian audience,
> may well understand that the only-begotten god ([hO] MONOGENES QEOS)
> is not metaphorical but a literal description of the result of
> Messiah's obedience to his Father's will. Briefly, that the pre-
> existent theos (Heb. elohim), also known as the Angel of YHVH,
> humbled himself by giving up his spirit-based existence, became
> mortal (a man), and upon his resurrection from death was transformed
> (born) into a spirit-based existence as before (Phil. 2:5-9) as a
> generation of God the Father. Thus he became the only born god (theos
> = elohim) to date (cf. John 3:6). Thus what was "born" was a new
> creature (compared to the physical) and a true son of God, or bene
> elohim as per Hebrew Scripture. In light of this, both the
> translation and meaning are clear.
>
> It appears the difficulty many have with the concept inherent in the
> Greek term MONOGENES QEOS, comes from the narrow definition and
> application that is often associated with the English word God and
> the Greek word QEOS. Of course theological bias also plays a
> significant role but it is hoped that Greek word structure and
> grammatical considerations are what is strictly dealt with here.
>
> Harold Derksen
> DHS Bible Research Group
> j4_12 at yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Thomas Thackery <tthackery at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The translation and meaning of John 1:18 become clear when the
> statement is accompanied with the rest of the chapter, book, and
> ultimately library. This business of gods begetting gods is
> commonplace for, say, Hesiod, but I strongly suggest that such a
> notion posited to a Jewish audience would hardly (have been) or be
> understood with out some major qualification---namely that a sole-
> descendant "only-begotten god" ([hO] MONOGENES QEOS) is metaphoric
> for the King Messiah. Within the context of the of the Johanine
> account, and the rest of the Christian library, the "what" that was
> born was clearly a son.
>
> Groetjes,
> Thomas Thackery
> California, USA
>
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-- 
Jason A. Hare
jaihare at gmail.com
Joplin, Missouri


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