[B-Greek] KOSMOS
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Thu Aug 31 07:52:51 EDT 2006
On Thursday, August 31, 2006, at 07:20AM, William Ross <woundedegomusic at gmail.com> wrote:
>Which usage fits this passage? What is the entity KOSMOS that "loves its
>own?" Would you see the usage to be equivalent to "humanity?"
>
>If so, are believers no longer part of humanity?
I think you are belaboring a point of logical distinction here
which is not really relevant to usage of the word in the Johannine
context. From the perspective of the author, hO KOSMOS is the
world/humanity at large OUTSIDE of the intimate Johannine community;
the word is used in a more-or-less pejorative sense for "outsiders"
as the great majority of humankind who are not believers and who are
hostile to belief and believers. That is precisely why Jesus in this
passage can say to beievers that they are EN TWi KOSMWi, "in the
world" but are not EK TOU KOSMOU (where EK + gen. = "from" or
"belonging to") -- the believers are not "of this world" or
"belonging to the world." The community of believers is conceived
here as an enclave that exists WITHIN humanity but that has set
itself off or been set off from humanity by belief and by relationship
to Jesus. This usage of KOSMOS depends upon an "insider's) distinction
between "US" and "THEM." "THEY" are "the world"; "WE" don't really
belong to "THEM." I think too that this NT distinction has its analogue
in the traditional OT distinction between Israel as a GOY QADOSH and
hA GOYIM, between a "holy nation" and "the nations."
>-----Original Message-----
>From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Craig J
>Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:18 AM
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KOSMOS
>
>> Is John using two meanings for KOSMOS in this sentence as a
>> play on the word?
>>
>> What is the hater here? Is it a system? Humankind? Or is it
>> SPECIFICALLY "the people that adhere to this world's system?"
>>
>> KJV:
>> John 15:19 If ye were of the world <2889>, the world <2889>
>> would love his
>> own: but because ye are not of the world <2889>, but I have
>> chosen you out of the world <2889>, therefore the world
>> <2889> hateth you.
>>
>> Can you see how I find "the world" to refer to a specific
>> subgroup of humanity in Paul/John?
>>
>> William Ross
>> VGB, Argentina
>
>EI EK TOU KOSMOU HTE hO KOSMOS AN TO IDION EFILEI hOTI DE EK TOU KOSMOU OUK
>ESTE ALL EGW EXELEXAMHN hUMAS EK TOU KOSMOU DIA TOUTO MISEI hUMAS hO KOSMOS
>(John 15:19)
>
>The usage of KOSMOS seems consistent throughout this verse, not two
>meanings, as I read it.
>
>Seems to fit in with what Harold said. If you take the disciples as the
>minority, and the world as the vast majority, the negative meaning only
>comes in by context, not by inherent meaning of KOSMOS.
>
>--
>Craig Johnson
>Brisbane, Australia
>Blog Experiment: http://bloggledegook.blogspot.com/
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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