[B-Greek] Jn 21.13 & 21.15 How much do you love me?

Elliot Poe Elliot.Poe at gmail.com
Sat Dec 16 11:50:15 EST 2006


With respect to the antecedent:

I am definitely open to other antecedents, but shouldn't the antecedent 
match in number?  I was under the impression that construction according 
to sense was fairly rare in the NT.  (Why would Jesus compare Peter's 
love to all the disciples' fish rather than just Peter's fish?)  
Alternatively, could the antecedents be TON ARTON and TO OYARION?  If 
these are feasible antecedents, I would imagine the text could be 
interpreted either way, with the antecedents TON ARTON and TO OYARION or 
the antecedent AUTOIS?  Construction according to sense is obviously a 
possibility; I'm just not sure the construction makes sense.  :)

Yours,
Elliot Poe

George F Somsel wrote:

>Iver,
>
>The only part of this that was tongue-in-cheek was the manner in which it was presented.  It was not, of course, just fish but the associations which go along with the fish -- the fishing life including the boats, nets, companions, the food it produces.  I think J. Harold Greenlee in the article that Oun Kwon pointed out is exactly correct.  It is not a comparison of Peter's love of Christ to that of Peter for the other disciples or Peter's love for Christ in comparison with the love of the other disciples for Christ. With Rob I vote for fish!
> 
>george
>gfsomsel
>_________
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 2:31:03 AM
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Jn 21.13 & 21.15 How much do you love me?
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <RRedden604 at aol.com>
>
>
>  
>
>>Fellows,
>>
>> An ambiguous use of the pronoun, either intentional or not,  whose
>>antecedent can be fish or the love of the other men for  Jesus.  I vote for fish!
>>Once a fisherman always a  fisherman!
>>
>>Rob Redden
>>    
>>
>
>I can see the tongue in cheek, but still...
>
>Because of the way ellipsis works in the Greek there is really no ambiguity in AGAPAiS ME PLEON 
>TOUTWN, confer the discussion of this topic in May 2002. One has to carry over the verb and object 
>from the first part of the sentence to the next: Dou you love me more than these (love me)?
>The ambiguity is introduced by the literal rendering of the KJV and subsequent literal versions, 
>because English has different rules for ellipsis. The correct English translation is: Do you love me 
>more than these do.
>This is just one of numerous examples where literal translations can easily mislead the readers.
>
>Iver Larsen 
>
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