[B-Greek] Jn 21.13 & 21.15 How much do you love me?

Edward Andrews edandrews at adelphia.net
Sat Dec 16 12:06:15 EST 2006


George:


I agree with your point. This possibility fits the way the question is 
phrased in Greek, for Peter was being asked to choose between two things 
(between Jesus and "these"). Such a question would also be appropriate in 
view of Peter's past. He had been one of the first disciples to follow 
Jesus. (John 1:35-42) Apparently, though, Peter did not immediately follow 
Jesus full-time. Rather, he returned to his fishing. Thus, some months later 
Jesus called Peter away from that substantial business to become a 'fisher 
of men.' (Matthew 4:18-20; Luke 5:1-11) Nonetheless, after Jesus' death, 
Peter initiated a return to this career, telling some of the disciples: "I 
am going fishing."-John 21:2, 3.

So it is quite possible that Jesus was driving home to Peter the need for 
making a decisive choice. What was he going to put foremost in life-being a 
follower of Jesus or pursuing a career, as suggested by the fish piled 
before them? How significant a place did the fish, the nets, the boats, and 
the camaraderie with fellow fishermen hold in Peter's heart? Would Peter 
truly abandon those enjoyable things to put foremost his love for Christ and 
the consequent feeding of Jesus' "little sheep"?-John 21:17.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: "Iver Larsen" <iver_larsen at sil.org>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Jn 21.13 & 21.15 How much do you love me?


> Iver,
>
> The only part of this that was tongue-in-cheek was the manner in which it 
> was presented.  It was not, of course, just fish but the associations 
> which go along with the fish -- the fishing life including the boats, 
> nets, companions, the food it produces.  I think J. Harold Greenlee in the 
> article that Oun Kwon pointed out is exactly correct.  It is not a 
> comparison of Peter's love of Christ to that of Peter for the other 
> disciples or Peter's love for Christ in comparison with the love of the 
> other disciples for Christ. With Rob I vote for fish!
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 2:31:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Jn 21.13 & 21.15 How much do you love me?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <RRedden604 at aol.com>
>
>
>> Fellows,
>>
>>  An ambiguous use of the pronoun, either intentional or not,  whose
>> antecedent can be fish or the love of the other men for  Jesus.  I vote 
>> for fish!
>> Once a fisherman always a  fisherman!
>>
>> Rob Redden
>
> I can see the tongue in cheek, but still...
>
> Because of the way ellipsis works in the Greek there is really no 
> ambiguity in AGAPAiS ME PLEON
> TOUTWN, confer the discussion of this topic in May 2002. One has to carry 
> over the verb and object
> from the first part of the sentence to the next: Dou you love me more than 
> these (love me)?
> The ambiguity is introduced by the literal rendering of the KJV and 
> subsequent literal versions,
> because English has different rules for ellipsis. The correct English 
> translation is: Do you love me
> more than these do.
> This is just one of numerous examples where literal translations can 
> easily mislead the readers.
>
> Iver Larsen
>
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