[B-Greek] Question about the semitic vocative
James Spinti
JSpinti at Eisenbrauns.com
Tue Dec 19 12:33:12 EST 2006
True. But what I said about definiteness and suffixes applies equally to Aramaic and Hebrew; my Akkadian is too rusty to be sure of, but there is a "bound form" which has the nominal suffix. I don't recall a definite article in Akkadian, does anyone remember?
HTH,
James
________________________________
James Spinti
Marketing Director, Book Sales Division
Eisenbrauns, Good books for more than 30 years
Specializing in Ancient Near Eastern and Biblical Studies
jspinti at eisenbrauns dot com
Web: http://www.eisenbrauns.com
Phone: 574-269-2011 ext 226
Fax: 574-269-6788
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> George F Somsel
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:26 PM
> To: James Spinti; B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Question about the semitic vocative
>
>
> While discussing the influence of Semitic on Greek (or the
> lack thereof), let me clarify one point. We frequently use
> the term "Semitic" to refer to Jews and Hebrew. It should be
> recalled that Akkadian was still being written when Alexander
> spread the gospel of Hellenism and that Aramaic was the
> language of commerce throughout the east (Yes, there is a
> Latinized phrase for that, but I will leave it to you to supply).
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: James Spinti <JSpinti at Eisenbrauns.com>
> To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:56:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Question about the semitic vocative
>
>
> As an added argument against a Semitic vocative here: both
> forms are genitival, which in Semitic would mean that they
> are suffixed. You can't have both a definite and a suffix on
> a Semitic word, since the suffix makes it definite.
>
> HTH,
> James
>
> ________________________________
> James Spinti
> Marketing Director, Book Sales Division
> Eisenbrauns, Good books for more than 30 years
> Specializing in Ancient Near Eastern and Biblical Studies
> jspinti at eisenbrauns dot com
> Web: http://www.eisenbrauns.com
> Phone: 574-269-2011 ext 226
> Fax: 574-269-6788
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> > George F Somsel
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:51 AM
> > To: Octavio Rodriguez; B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Question about the semitic vocative
> >
> >
> > I tend to question that this is a case of Semitic influence.
> > Even BDF which does subscribe to the view that it was a
> > "Semitic vocative" notes that this tendency is present all
> > the way back to Homer. I would therefore tend to think that
> > this was an internal development of the Greek which certainly
> > would not have been discouraged by Semitic usage. BDF § 147
> > also notes that
> >
> > "In the NT this is the case (1) generally with adjectives
> > used alone or without a substantive where the vocative is
> > clear; (2) with additions of all kinds to the vocative (Attic
> > SU hO PRESBUTATOS, PROCENE KAI hOI ALLOI), especially with
> > participles (§412(5)) which hardly ever form the vocative.
> > (3) Attic used the nominative (with article) with simple
> > substantives only in addressing inferiors, who were, so to
> > speak, thereby addressed in the 3rd person (Aristoph., Ra.
> > 521 hO PAIS, AKOLOUQEI)."
> >
> > Blass, F., Debrunner, A., & Funk, R. W. (1961). A Greek
> > grammar of the New Testament and other early Christian
> > literature (81). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
> >
> >
> > george
> > gfsomsel
> > _________
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Octavio Rodriguez <octaviors at gmail.com>
> > To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:24:38 AM
> > Subject: [B-Greek] Question about the semitic vocative
> >
> >
> > I have a question about the difference of a vocative such as
> > KURIE and a
> > vocative such as hO KURIOS.
> >
> > I have read that the first belongs to the ancient greek, and
> > the second is
> > an influence of the the Hebrew where the article change the
> > nominative to a
> > vocative.
> > Thus, the article here would be the signal for the vocative.
> > Am i right?.
> > For example in John 20:28 we reads hO KURIOS MOU KAI hO QEOS
> > MOU, which
> > clearly is a semitic vocative due to the article.
> >
> > However some people who knew greek grammar seemed not to
> > see the article
> > for this function, for example Cyril of Alexandria (four
> century)) who
> > seemed to know grammar well, said about John 20:28:
> >
> >
> > "Observe, too, that when he says *My Lord and my God, *he
> > uses the article to
> > show that there was One Lord and One God. For he does not say
> > without the
> > qualification of the article, KURIOS MOU KAI QEOS MOU*, *to
> > prevent any one
> > from imagining that he called Him Lord or God as he might
> > have done one of
> > ourselves or of the holy angels. " (Commentary on John book II)
> >
> > The question is if Cyril was right about the grammar or may
> be he was
> > unaware about when we have a semitic vocative.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Octavio Rodriguez
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list