[B-Greek] Judea and Samaria in Acts 1:8
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at ioa.com
Wed Feb 8 13:02:50 EST 2006
The question whether the phrase "Judea and Samaria" as a unit has
reference to Pilate's perspective or that of Herod Antipas is an
interesting one, but a response to it would really depend upon one's
assumptions regarding the dating and composition of Acts; the
perspective may very well be from the time of composition, a matter
upon which there may be some degree of consensus but certainly no
complete consensus -- but that does indeed get into issues that we
don't discuss on B-Greek.
On Feb 8, 2006, at 12:28 PM, Ken Purscell wrote:
> All of which goes to show that it helps to know the quirks of your
> target
> language ("both" when two and only two items areconnected) as well
> as the
> one from which you translate. I just saw a high school speech team
> t-shirt
> (from a town with a heavily Swedish background) that *tried* to say in
> Swedish something like "We speak fittingly." the problem was that
> neither
> the verb nor the adverb were in the right form, so a literal
> translation
> comes out "We to speak (but only one of us) fit," a true irony,
> given the
> intended message. Lesson learned: know your languages fittingly!
>
> I think you are right, Carl, about "Judea and Samaria" being united
> in at
> least the writer's mental map. But I am just curious if you think
> there's
> any clue here about *which* IOUDAIA might be in mind: the construct of
> Pilate and the Romans which stops at the border of Galilee, or the
> broader
> construct desired by Herod Antipas which would include Galilee and
> all of
> what we know as Eretz Yisroel?
>
> I realize this might draw us away from strictly translation issues (it
> certainly has drawn us off the original enclitics question, hence the
> subject change), but I'm interested if anyone has insight into
> these mental
> map issues. If we've gone too far afield, you can email me off the
> B-Greek
> list.
>
> Blessings from one who has been to "both North and South Dakota and
> the ends
> of the Upper Midwest."
> Ken Purscell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at ioa.com>
> To: "B-Greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Cc: "Terry and Barbie Thrall" <thrallfamily at localline.com>; "Ken
> Purscell"
> <k.j.purscell at tcu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 8:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Enclitics
>
>
>> Ken Purcell is right on target in response to the original
>> question. The
>> only additional point I think I'd make is that TE may introduce a
>> sequence of closely-linked words or phrases that is more than
>> two, and if
>> there are indeed more than two words or phrases, "both" is
>> inappropriate
>> for translation of the TE. In the present instance (Acts 1:8)
>> there's
>> some question of how many words or phrases are actually linked.
>> Does the
>> Greek text as cited by Ken,
>>
>>> KAI ESESQE MOU MARTURES EN TE IEROUSALHM KAI EN PASHi THi
>>> IOUDAIAi KAI
>>> SAMAREIAi KAI hEWS ESXATOU THS GHS
>>
>> two phrases (EN TE IEROUSALHM KAI EN PASHi THi IOUDAIAi KAI
>> SAMAREIAi)
>> followed by a separate third one (KAI hEWS ESXATOU THS GHS) -- I
>> do think
>> we should see Judea and Samaria as a single unit governed by
>> PASHi THi--
>> or as a group of three linked by TE ... KAI ... KAI. Is Jesus,
>> according
>> to the author of Acts (presumably Luke) indicating a single
>> phase of
>> "witnessing" to BOTH Jerusalem AND all Judea and Samaria followed
>> by a
>> further phase "to the boundaries of the world"? or are there
>> rather THREE
>> phases and should we understand the linkage TE .. KAI ... KAI
>> that way:
>> (1) Jerusalem, (2) Judea and Samaria, (3) the OIKOUMENH. Some
>> would see
>> the narrative in Acts organized along this three-phase missionary
>> expansion. In that case, we shouldn't use "both" for the TE.
>>
>> KJV has "... ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and
>> in all
>> Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
>>
>> but NET has "... and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and
>> in all
>> Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest parts22 of the earth."
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Ken Purscell wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> In researching information regarding a grammar problem, I have
>>>> found
>>>> you
>>>> may be specialists in the area of enclitics. In reference to my
>>>> particular
>>>> situation, I would request your answer to the following question:
>>>>
>>>> What precise part is the word "both" in grammar?
>>>>
>>>> We have normally stated it to be an indefinite pronoun. But further
>>>> studies indicate it to be an enclitic. Would it be proper to
>>>> say this
>>>> is
>>>> an enclitic particle? Or would it be better to include it with
>>>> enclitic
>>>> pronouns? An example to use for debating this would be the King
>>>> James
>>>> Version Bible, Acts chapter 1 and verse 8 which states:
>>>>
>>>> "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come
>>>> upon
>>>> you:
>>>> and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all
>>>> Judaea,
>>>> and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
>>>>
>>>> In this verse, what part is the word both? Please grant me your
>>>> professional opinion on this so that I may understand more
>>>> clearly the
>>>> concept of enclitics with relation to the word both. My sincere
>>>> appreciation to you and your colleagues for your valued wisdom
>>>> on this.
>>>>
>>>> Truly,
>>>>
>>>> B Thrall
>>>> United States
>>>
>>> In English, and often in Greek, "both" can be a conjunction,
>>> especially
>>> in a
>>> sentence such as the one you gave from Acts which uses the
>>> "both...and"
>>> construction. (The "both" in, for example "both of you" could
>>> be called
>>> a
>>> pronoun, but that's a different constructin.) The textbook
>>> example in
>>> B-Greek, of course, is KAI...KAI, but as you've probably already
>>> noted,
>>> the
>>> "both" in the translation of Acts 1:8 doesn't translate a KAI,
>>> but the
>>> enclitic particle TE. Here's the phrase in full:
>>>
>>> KAI ESESQE MOU MARTURES EN TE IEROUSALHM KAI EN PASHi THi
>>> IOUDAIAi KAI
>>> SAMAREIAi KAI hEWS ESXATOU THS GHS
>>>
>>> The reason most translators put "both" in the sentence is
>>> because TE
>>> starts
>>> the process of connecting concepts, in this case the places where
>>> the
>>> disciples are to be witnesses. It does this, though, not
>>> because it is
>>> an
>>> enclitic, but because it is a particle which does this. A word is
>>> called
>>> an enclitic if it often loses its accent mark, much as EN does
>>> in the
>>> same
>>> sentence. (You'll notice that the first EN has its mark, and
>>> that's
>>> because
>>> it's followed by TE, another enclitic! The second EN, followed by
>>> PASHi, is
>>> its usual bland, unaccented self.)
>>>
>>> Particles are hard for English speakers because we don't have
>>> them, at
>>> least
>>> not in formal presentations of grammar. Translators just have
>>> to learn
>>> to
>>> recognize them. I've learned that when I come across TE I
>>> should just
>>> start
>>> looking for a KAI or another TE and see what things the writer
>>> is trying
>>> to
>>> link together. Occasionally TE appears alone; "and" or even
>>> sometimes
>>> just
>>> ignoring it works well enough.
>>>
>>> I hope both that this clears things up and that you hang in there.
>>> Ken Purscell
>>> Nebraska
>>>
>>> ---
>>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>>> B-Greek mailing list
>>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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