[B-Greek] Enclitics
frjsilver at optonline.net
frjsilver at optonline.net
Wed Feb 8 21:26:00 EST 2006
Dear Friends --
As previously noted, the _KAI...KAI_ construction is most frequently used for 'both...and'.
OTOH, the _TE...KAI_ construction here -- as elsewhere -- seems to me to have more the force of 'as...so also'. It might possibly be strong enough to be read as 'not only...but also'.
Grammatically, I think a strong case can be made for both TE and KAI to be defined as conjunctions in all circumstances, sometimes in correlative constructions and sometimes not.
Peace and blessings to all.
Monk James
Fr James Silver
Orthodox Church in America
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at ioa.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2006 9:53 am
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Enclitics
> Ken Purcell is right on target in response to the original
> question.
> The only additional point I think I'd make is that TE may
> introduce a
> sequence of closely-linked words or phrases that is more than two,
>
> and if there are indeed more than two words or phrases, "both" is
> inappropriate for translation of the TE. In the present instance
> (Acts 1:8) there's some question of how many words or phrases are
> actually linked. Does the Greek text as cited by Ken,
>
> > KAI ESESQE MOU MARTURES EN TE IEROUSALHM KAI EN PASHi THi
> IOUDAIAi
> > KAI SAMAREIAi KAI hEWS ESXATOU THS GHS
>
> two phrases (EN TE IEROUSALHM KAI EN PASHi THi IOUDAIAi KAI
> SAMAREIAi) followed by a separate third one (KAI hEWS ESXATOU THS
> GHS) -- I do think we should see Judea and Samaria as a single
> unit
> governed by PASHi THi-- or as a group of three linked by TE ...
> KAI ... KAI. Is Jesus, according to the author of Acts (presumably
>
> Luke) indicating a single phase of "witnessing" to BOTH Jerusalem
>
> AND all Judea and Samaria followed by a further phase "to the
> boundaries of the world"? or are there rather THREE phases and
> should
> we understand the linkage TE .. KAI ... KAI that way: (1)
> Jerusalem,
> (2) Judea and Samaria, (3) the OIKOUMENH. Some would see the
> narrative in Acts organized along this three-phase missionary
> expansion. In that case, we shouldn't use "both" for the TE.
>
> KJV has "... ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and
> in
> all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
>
> but NET has "... and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in
>
> all Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest parts22 of the earth."
>
> On Feb 7, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Ken Purscell wrote:
>
> >
> >> In researching information regarding a grammar problem, I have
> >> found you
> >> may be specialists in the area of enclitics. In reference to my
>
> >> particular
> >> situation, I would request your answer to the following question:
> >>
> >> What precise part is the word "both" in grammar?
> >>
> >> We have normally stated it to be an indefinite pronoun. But further
> >> studies indicate it to be an enclitic. Would it be proper to
> say
> >> this is
> >> an enclitic particle? Or would it be better to include it with
> >> enclitic
> >> pronouns? An example to use for debating this would be the King
> James>> Version Bible, Acts chapter 1 and verse 8 which states:
> >>
> >> "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come
> >> upon you:
> >> and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all
>
> >> Judaea,
> >> and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
> >>
> >> In this verse, what part is the word both? Please grant me your
> >> professional opinion on this so that I may understand more
> clearly
> >> the
> >> concept of enclitics with relation to the word both. My sincere
> >> appreciation to you and your colleagues for your valued wisdom
> on
> >> this.
> >>
> >> Truly,
> >>
> >> B Thrall
> >> United States
> >
> > In English, and often in Greek, "both" can be a conjunction,
> > especially in a
> > sentence such as the one you gave from Acts which uses the
> > "both...and"
> > construction. (The "both" in, for example "both of you" could
> be
> > called a
> > pronoun, but that's a different constructin.) The textbook
> example in
> > B-Greek, of course, is KAI...KAI, but as you've probably already
>
> > noted, the
> > "both" in the translation of Acts 1:8 doesn't translate a KAI,
> but the
> > enclitic particle TE. Here's the phrase in full:
> >
> > KAI ESESQE MOU MARTURES EN TE IEROUSALHM KAI EN PASHi THi
> IOUDAIAi KAI
> > SAMAREIAi KAI hEWS ESXATOU THS GHS
> >
> > The reason most translators put "both" in the sentence is
> because
> > TE starts
> > the process of connecting concepts, in this case the places
> where the
> > disciples are to be witnesses. It does this, though, not
> because
> > it is an
> > enclitic, but because it is a particle which does this. A word
> is
> > called
> > an enclitic if it often loses its accent mark, much as EN does
> in
> > the same
> > sentence. (You'll notice that the first EN has its mark, and
> > that's because
> > it's followed by TE, another enclitic! The second EN, followed
> by
> > PASHi, is
> > its usual bland, unaccented self.)
> >
> > Particles are hard for English speakers because we don't have
> them,
> > at least
> > not in formal presentations of grammar. Translators just have
> to
> > learn to
> > recognize them. I've learned that when I come across TE I
> should
> > just start
> > looking for a KAI or another TE and see what things the writer
> is
> > trying to
> > link together. Occasionally TE appears alone; "and" or even
> > sometimes just
> > ignoring it works well enough.
> >
> > I hope both that this clears things up and that you hang in there.
> > Ken Purscell
> > Nebraska
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list