[B-Greek] Help with 'Imperfect' Particple required (Mt 2:7)
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at ioa.com
Sat Jan 21 06:34:07 EST 2006
I'm not sure that makes so very much difference to understanding the
construction here. "Time of the shining star" = "Time of the star
that was shining." But the key word in HKRIBWSEN CRONON is CRONON:
"WHEN did the star shine?"
On Jan 20, 2006, at 9:44 PM, kgraham0938 at comcast.net wrote:
> Hey what about taking this as an attributive participle?
> TON CRONON TOU FAINOMENOU ASTEROS,
>
> Time of the shining star.
>
> --
> Kelton Graham
> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at ioa.com>
>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2006, at 4:52 PM, Martin Wells wrote:
>>
>>> Dear B-Greek,
>>>
>>> I'm in need of some clarification re the tense of the present middle
>>> participle "fainomenou" as used in Mt 2:7.
>>>
>>> I know that participles do not exist in imperfect form and the
>>> present is
>>> used to convey imperfect past time - with context (tense of main
>>> verb)
>>> providing the indication of time - but this word has been classed as
>>> corresponding to 'perfect' (Max and Mary) AND 'imperfect' (by
>>> Gustav Teres
>>> who argues for the Star being visible on a nightly basis ever since
>>> its
>>> rising).
>>>
>>> Is this tense plain old simple 'present' or perfect or imperfect?
>>>
>>> As the main verb - "akribws" - is aorist active indicative singular
>>> it would
>>> be in contrast to the imperfect (on going action as it unfolds). So
>>> if I
>>> conclude that "fainomenou" cannot be imperfect in form in this
>>> instance,
>>> would I be right?
>>
>> Text (in standard BG transliteration): TOTE hHRWiDHS LAQRAi KALESAS
>> TOUS MAGOUS HKRIBWSEN PAR' AUTWN TON CRONON TOU FAINOMENOU ASTEROS.
>>
>> The participle is, as you say, present "tense", although some would
>> prefer to speak of it as having IMPERFECT "aspect." In this case the
>> tense-form of the participle has nothing to do whatsoever with the
>> verb HKRIBWSEN (AKRIBOW). One could just as well translate the verse,
>> "ascertained precisely from the Magi the time of the star's
>> appearance (time of the star appearing)." Now we can say that CRONON
>> TOU FAINOMENOU ASTEROS is equivalent to CRONON EF' hWi EFAINETO ASTHR
>> or even CRONON hOTE EFAINETO ASTHR. That is to say, the imperfect
>> indicative would here be appropriate in a clause equivalent to the
>> participial phrase.
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> ---
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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