[B-Greek] Romans 4:1

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Jul 26 08:52:23 EDT 2006


On Jul 26, 2006, at 8:22 AM, Harold Holmyard wrote:

> Dear list,
>
>>> From: "gfsomsel at juno.com" <gfsomsel at juno.com>
>>> Date: July 26, 2006 10:35:25 AM EDT
>>> To: hholmyard at ont.com, cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Romans 4:1
>>>
>>> Carl,
>>>
>>> Would you please post this. My problem is still not resolved.
>>>
>>> If you take a look at Jn 1.15 it has
>>>
>>> hOUTOS HN hON EIPON
>>>
>>> The object concerning which something is said is in the acc
>>> (PROPATORA is acc so ABRAAM though indeclinable must also be
>>> considered acc).  On the other hand, in Lk 17.21 where EREW is used
>>> to introduce direct speach (after a couple of of demonstrative
>>> expressions) the quotation is in normal format with the nominative
>>> subject
>>>
>>> IDOU GAR hH BASILEIA TOU QEOU ENTOS hUMWN ESTIN
>>>
>>> It would seem that TI with a form of EIPW was used regularly to
>>> introduce a question CONCERNING something.
>>>
>>>
>
> HH: George, I take you to mean that you find the proposed translation
> unlikely:
>
> TI OUN EROUMEN hEURHKENAI ABRAAM TON PROPATORA hHMWN KATA SARKA
>
> What then shall we say, Have we found Abraham to be our forefather
> according to the flesh?
>
>
> HH: Another person on another list said that he found the translation
> impossible. I tend to find it impossible, too, Perhaps one could think
> of the words as:
>
> What then shall we say -- to have found Abraham to be our forefather
> according to the flesh?
>
> HH: But it seems very odd to me. What do people with more  
> experience in
> Greek feel?

I don't know whether that includes me or not; I will say this much: I  
have, occasionally, when coming back to this text in a sequential  
reading, seriously considered that sense -- but then I could not get  
past the thought: "Did we ever LOSE our fleshly forefather Abraham ?"


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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