[B-Greek] "attain" for "find"?
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Fri Jul 28 09:12:01 EDT 2006
Of course, this usage of hEURISKW would seem to require an object. One always obtains or attains SOMETHING. In this translation it is supplied by the TI which initiates the sentence with ABRAAM (and PROPATORA hHMWN in apposition) functioning as the subject of the infinitive. What it also does is to divorce KATA SARKA from ABRAAM PROPATORA hHMWN, which is its nearest referent, to make it function as an adverb modifying hEURISKW. It seems to me that this is a rather capricious reorganization of the elements in that it takes them out of their accustomed order of usage.
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Fridolin Janzen <fjanzen at gmx.net> wrote:
What if the word âfindâ, âheuriskoÌâ would simply be translated with one of its secondary meanings (according to Thayer: obtain, attain), instead of with its primary meaning, as the italian Riveduta Luzzi does, using âattainedâ:
Rom 4:1 Che diremo dunque che l'antenato nostro Abramo abbia ottenuto secondo la carne?
"What then shall we say (that) Abraham, our forefather, attained according to the flesh?â
According to the flesh Abraham attained the Middle East conflict. According to faith he attained the Lordâ righteousness.
Pastor Fridolin Janzen
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:53:39 -0500
From: Harold Holmyard
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Romans 4:1
To: B-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <44C79003.9050103 at ont.com>
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Dear Stephen,
>Yes, since ABRAAM is indeclinable it "could" serve as subject for
>hEURHKENAI, but then the sentence would make little or no sense. (1) "What
>then shall we say (that) Abraham finds our forefather according to flesh?"
>or (2) "What then shall we say (that) Abraham, our forefather, finds
>according to flesh?" We can certainly rule out (2) since hEURHKENAI is
>transitive, but there is nothing to provide an object. And (1) is just
>nonsensical, since Abraham obviously is the forefather under issue.
>Therefore, I think one can rule out ABRAAM as subject for hEURHKENAI.
>
>
>
HH: Maybe I just don't understand you, but option 2 above is that taken
by nearly every major translation of the Bible and makes perfect sense.
The object of the transitive verb is "what," since this is a question.
The object is TI.
TI OUN EROUMEN hEURHKENAI ABRAAM TON PROPATORA hHMWN KATA SARKA
However, the textual evidence favors to a consider extent that
"according to the flesh" goes with "forefather":
"What then shall we say (that) Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
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End of B-Greek Digest, Vol 43, Issue 29
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george
gfsomsel
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