[B-Greek] John 6:9

yancywsmith yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jun 1 10:24:01 EDT 2006


Sorry B-Greekers,
I sent this message in error to Carl, then sent it from the wrong e- 
mail address without a Subject. I am getting used to a new ISP and e- 
mail program. Bear with me.

One way to confirm Carl's assessment, which I think is correct, is to  
restructure the question in the last part of the verse: ESTIN  
PAIDARAION hWDE hOS ECEI PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI DUO OYARIA; ALLA  
TAUTA TI ESTIN EIS TOSOUTOUS? An appropriate answer (with the deictic  
pronouns references made explicit) might be:

ALLA OUDEN ESTIN TAUTA PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI DUO OYARIA EIS  
TOSOUTOUS OCLOUS/ANQRWPOUS.

It becomes clear that TI functions as predicate nominative with the  
equative verb, and that TAUTA is subject (demonstrative adjective as  
a pronoun).

Yancy Smith
Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Brite Divinity School
Texas Christian University




On Jun 1, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:


>
> On Jun 1, 2006, at 7:45 AM, frjsilver at optonline.net wrote:
>
>
>> Dear Friends --
>>
>> Isn't the subject here actually TI?
>>
>> The parenthetic question TI ESTIN is a grammatical capsule with its
>> own subject and verb, which agree in number.  TAUTA (neuter plural)
>> has merely an implied verb, if any.
>>
>> In English, maybe this comes out to something like 'But these (few)
>> things -- what is *that* to (so many) of those people?'
>>
>
> Some might prefer to think of TI as the subject of ESTIN, but for my
> part, I'd rather view the TI as a predicate word ("but these: what
> are they for that number of people?"
>
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Carl W. Conrad"
>> Date: Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:38 am
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 6:9
>> To: "Dony K.Donev"
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2006, at 12:32 AM, Dony K. Donev wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I need someone to comment on the use plural pronoun with the
>>>> singular verb in the second clause of John 6:9.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Text: ESTIN PAIDARAION hWDE hOS ECEI PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI
>>> DUO
>>> OYARIA; ALLA TAUTA TI ESTIN EIS TOSOUTOUS?
>>>
>>> It's the last question part involved here. There's nothing
>>> unusual
>>> about a singular verb with a neuter plural subject -- that's
>>> standard
>>> Greek usage, although it's often not observed in NT Koine.
>>>
>>> Carl W. Conrad
>>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>>> B-Greek mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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>>
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>


Yancy Smith
Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Brite Divinity School
Texas Christian University







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