[B-Greek] John 6:9

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Jun 1 11:44:48 EDT 2006


On Jun 1, 2006, at 10:24 AM, yancywsmith wrote:

> Sorry B-Greekers,
> I sent this message in error to Carl, then sent it from the wrong e-
> mail address without a Subject. I am getting used to a new ISP and e-
> mail program. Bear with me.
>
> One way to confirm Carl's assessment, which I think is correct, is to
> restructure the question in the last part of the verse: ESTIN
> PAIDARAION hWDE hOS ECEI PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI DUO OYARIA; ALLA
> TAUTA TI ESTIN EIS TOSOUTOUS? An appropriate answer (with the deictic
> pronouns references made explicit) might be:
>
> ALLA OUDEN ESTIN TAUTA PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI DUO OYARIA EIS
> TOSOUTOUS OCLOUS/ANQRWPOUS.

That formulation is slightly awkward with the TAUTA referring to the  
PENTE ARTOI and DUO OYARIA. Probably -- if the demonstrative precedes  
-- this would be: ALL' OUDEN ESTIN EIS TOSOUTOUS hOUTOI hOI PENTE  
ARTOI KAI DUO OYARIA.

> It becomes clear that TI functions as predicate nominative with the
> equative verb, and that TAUTA is subject (demonstrative adjective as
> a pronoun).
>
> Yancy Smith
> Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
> Brite Divinity School
> Texas Christian University
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2006, at 7:45 AM, frjsilver at optonline.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Dear Friends --
>>>
>>> Isn't the subject here actually TI?
>>>
>>> The parenthetic question TI ESTIN is a grammatical capsule with its
>>> own subject and verb, which agree in number.  TAUTA (neuter plural)
>>> has merely an implied verb, if any.
>>>
>>> In English, maybe this comes out to something like 'But these (few)
>>> things -- what is *that* to (so many) of those people?'
>>>
>>
>> Some might prefer to think of TI as the subject of ESTIN, but for my
>> part, I'd rather view the TI as a predicate word ("but these: what
>> are they for that number of people?"
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carl W. Conrad"
>>> Date: Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:38 am
>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 6:9
>>> To: "Dony K.Donev"
>>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 1, 2006, at 12:32 AM, Dony K. Donev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I need someone to comment on the use plural pronoun with the
>>>>> singular verb in the second clause of John 6:9.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Text: ESTIN PAIDARAION hWDE hOS ECEI PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI
>>>> DUO
>>>> OYARIA; ALLA TAUTA TI ESTIN EIS TOSOUTOUS?
>>>>
>>>> It's the last question part involved here. There's nothing
>>>> unusual
>>>> about a singular verb with a neuter plural subject -- that's
>>>> standard
>>>> Greek usage, although it's often not observed in NT Koine.
>>>>
>>>> Carl W. Conrad
>>>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>>>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>>>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---
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>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>> B-Greek mailing list
>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>
>
>
> Yancy Smith
> Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
> Brite Divinity School
> Texas Christian University
>
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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