[B-Greek] John 6:9
yancywsmith
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jun 1 11:52:52 EDT 2006
Right you are.
Mine would have been better if I had put parenthesis, i.e. ALLA
OUDEN ESTIN TAUTA (PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI DUO OYARIA) EIS
TOSOUTOUS OCLOUS/ANQRWPOUS. But your restructure is much better
Greek, with hOUTOI rather than TAUTA. Thanks.
Yancy Smith
Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Brite Divinity School
Texas Christian University
On Jun 1, 2006, at 10:44 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
> On Jun 1, 2006, at 10:24 AM, yancywsmith wrote:
>
>> Sorry B-Greekers,
>> I sent this message in error to Carl, then sent it from the wrong e-
>> mail address without a Subject. I am getting used to a new ISP and e-
>> mail program. Bear with me.
>>
>> One way to confirm Carl's assessment, which I think is correct, is to
>> restructure the question in the last part of the verse: ESTIN
>> PAIDARAION hWDE hOS ECEI PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI DUO OYARIA; ALLA
>> TAUTA TI ESTIN EIS TOSOUTOUS? An appropriate answer (with the deictic
>> pronouns references made explicit) might be:
>>
>> ALLA OUDEN ESTIN TAUTA PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI DUO OYARIA EIS
>> TOSOUTOUS OCLOUS/ANQRWPOUS.
>
> That formulation is slightly awkward with the TAUTA referring to
> the PENTE ARTOI and DUO OYARIA. Probably -- if the demonstrative
> precedes -- this would be: ALL' OUDEN ESTIN EIS TOSOUTOUS hOUTOI
> hOI PENTE ARTOI KAI DUO OYARIA.
>
>> It becomes clear that TI functions as predicate nominative with the
>> equative verb, and that TAUTA is subject (demonstrative adjective as
>> a pronoun).
>>
>> Yancy Smith
>> Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
>> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
>> Brite Divinity School
>> Texas Christian University
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2006, at 7:45 AM, frjsilver at optonline.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Friends --
>>>>
>>>> Isn't the subject here actually TI?
>>>>
>>>> The parenthetic question TI ESTIN is a grammatical capsule with its
>>>> own subject and verb, which agree in number. TAUTA (neuter plural)
>>>> has merely an implied verb, if any.
>>>>
>>>> In English, maybe this comes out to something like 'But these (few)
>>>> things -- what is *that* to (so many) of those people?'
>>>>
>>>
>>> Some might prefer to think of TI as the subject of ESTIN, but for my
>>> part, I'd rather view the TI as a predicate word ("but these: what
>>> are they for that number of people?"
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Carl W. Conrad"
>>>> Date: Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:38 am
>>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 6:9
>>>> To: "Dony K.Donev"
>>>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 1, 2006, at 12:32 AM, Dony K. Donev wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I need someone to comment on the use plural pronoun with the
>>>>>> singular verb in the second clause of John 6:9.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Text: ESTIN PAIDARAION hWDE hOS ECEI PENTE ARTOUS KRIQINOU KAI
>>>>> DUO
>>>>> OYARIA; ALLA TAUTA TI ESTIN EIS TOSOUTOUS?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the last question part involved here. There's nothing
>>>>> unusual
>>>>> about a singular verb with a neuter plural subject -- that's
>>>>> standard
>>>>> Greek usage, although it's often not observed in NT Koine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl W. Conrad
>>>>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>>>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>>>>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>>>>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>>>>> B-Greek mailing list
>>>>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>>>> B-Greek mailing list
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl W. Conrad
>>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>>> B-Greek mailing list
>>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yancy Smith
>> Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
>> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
>> Brite Divinity School
>> Texas Christian University
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>> B-Greek mailing list
>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
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