[B-Greek] DILOGOS

frjsilver at optonline.net frjsilver at optonline.net
Mon Jun 5 21:42:25 EDT 2006


Not slander, just deception, 'double talk' -- saying one thing but meaning another.

Father James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Smith (REL110, 211,212)" 
Date: Monday, June 5, 2006 7:13 pm
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] DILOGOS
To: B-greek at lists.ibiblio.org

> Gentlemen and Scholars,
> 
> Would DILOGOS then be parallel to DIGLWSSOS and not DIPSUCOS? 
> The English
> idioms you mention are circumlocutions for liar, without the 
> connotation of
> doubting. Is this Greek term just a synonym for PSEUDHS, or is 
> there the
> idea of slander which appears in the parallel of 1 Tim. 3:11, 
> where the
> contrast to SEMNAS is DIABOLOUS?
> 
> Dave Smith
> Hudson, NC
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: 
> To: "Harold Holmyard" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 18:39
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] DILOGOS
> 
> 
> Dear Friends --
> 
> In English, we have such expressions as 'double speak' and 
> 'talking out of
> both sides of his mouth', 'speaks with forked tongue', etc.
> 
> I think DILOGOS can pretty much find a place in that semantic field.
> 
> Peace and blessings to all.
> 
> Father James Silver
> 
> Monk James
> Orthodox Church in America
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Harold Holmyard 
> Date: Monday, June 5, 2006 5:59 pm
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] DILOGOS
> 
> > Dear Dave,
> >
> > >I find DILOGOS in 3:8 and Polycarp to the Philippians 5:2. Both
> > contexts are
> > >pastoral and both refer directly to the office of
> > deacons/ministers. In
> > >these two context, it is a negative requirement. i.e.
> > deacons/ministers are
> > >not to be this way. When I first noticed this post, I 
> recalled the
> > >prohibitions in the Epistle of James and very often in Hermas to
> > not be
> > >DIPSUCOS, double-souled or doubting/uncommitted. Living according
> > to divine
> > >reason (LOGOS) is a prominent theme as far back as Justin Martyr,
> > and may
> > >reach back through the Johannine school and Philo, in religious
> > circles.>Justin wished to trace it to Plato and Socrates. DILOGOS
> > characterizes one
> > >who is not serious about matters at hand (SEMNOS 1 Tim 3:8). Both
> > Polycarp>and 1 Tim. speak of money, shameful gain in one and love
> > of silver in the
> > >other. It seems much like a person who can not make up his mind,
> > whether to
> > >peruse the ministry for personal gain or the glory of God. In
> > this, it may
> > >be parallel to DIPSUCOS. The verbal form, DIALOGISMOS carries the
> > idea of
> > >doubt, and so does DIPSUCOS.
> > >
> > >These are my preliminary thoughts on this word and, I hope, a
> > springboard>for the insight of others.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > HH: LSJ offers "doubtful"and "double-tongued" and cites 1 Tim 3:8.
> > The
> > word means "double-tongued" or "insincere" according to BAGD,
> > citing Pol
> > 5:2 and Moulton & Milligan. The NET Bible translates it as 
> "two-
> > faced"
> > and has this note:
> >
> > Or “insincere,” “deceitful”; Grk “speaking double.”
> >
> > Yours,
> > Harold Holmyard
> >
> > ---
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> >
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