[B-Greek] Mark 6:41

frjsilver at optonline.net frjsilver at optonline.net
Thu Jun 8 13:25:09 EDT 2006


Dear Friends --

One frequently neglected aspect of the Greek imperfect tense is incipience, an action started but not completed in the grammar of at least that section of the narrative.

In this case, it's possible to say that 'Jesus began to break the bread....'

Of course, 'was breaking' (progressive aspect) might work as well.  Let your context be your guide.

The aorist, though, seems to me like it might be employed sometimes in the Gospels and Letters much as I find it in the Greek 70 (especially in the Psalms), representing a habitual or durative aspect rather than a past tense of any sort, and -- for that -- perhaps best rendered in English (at least) by a simple present-tense form.  I call these verbs 'aoristic' rather than aorist, strictly speaking.

Peace and blessings to all.

Father James Silver

Monk James
Orthodox Church in America

----- Original Message -----
From: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
Date: Thursday, June 8, 2006 12:12 pm
Subject: [B-Greek] Mark 6:41

> My take:
> It's very hard to pin the sense of the aorist down in a brief 
> statement. In
> a narrative context like this, it's like a simple past in English. 
> It's not
> that it tells you that the verbal action happened in such-and-such 
> a way,
> but just that it happened. Depending on the context, that may 
> typicallyleave the reader with one or the other impression, just 
> as in English. It's
> the "unmarked" (or "unremarkable", if that conveys more meaning) 
> tense-form
> for narrative writing.
> 
> However, the imperfect does indeed say more than that it just 
> happened. It
> suggests some kind of extension in time. Whether that be by 
> repetition, by
> getting started ("inception"), by the notion that something went 
> on "for a
> while", in any case the idea of extension does come in.  
> 
> My rendering of Mark 6:41 takes care to convey the force of the 
> imperfect:
> And he broke up the loaves, and was giving them to his followers, 
> so they
> could serve the people.
> 
> If you're asking if the disciples experienced multiplication of 
> the bread as
> they handed it out, I'd say that the text doesn't answer that one 
> way or the
> other. I suppose the general impression is that Jesus continuously or
> repeatedly handed out portions of broken bread to the disciples - even
> though he only started with a small handful of loaves. 
> Webb Mealy
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]
> > On Behalf Of Norman Wood
> > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 4:42 AM
> > To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: [B-Greek] Mark 6:41
> > 
> > Hi,
> > KAI KATEKLASEN TOUS hARTOUS KAI EDIDOU TOIS MAQHTAIS hINA
> > PARTIQWSIN AUTOIS
> > 
> > Mounce says "that the imperfect indicates a continuous action 
> normallyoccuring in
> > the past"
> > 
> > Does this mean that he broke(aorist) the bread ( a one off 
> action) , then
> with
> > EDIDOU that Jesus continued to give out bread to the disciples 
> as they
> served it to
> > the men present, the increase in bread occuring with him and 
> being passed
> on?
> > 
> > 
> > All the best
> > Norman Wood
> > Scotland
> > 
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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> 
> 
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