[B-Greek] Mark 6:41

Webb webb at selftest.net
Thu Jun 8 13:45:55 EDT 2006


Dear Monk James,
I certainly agree that the aorist is often truly "aoristic", as in this
instance:
My soul lifts up the greatness of the Lord, and my spirit is overjoyed over
[HGALLIASEN EPI] God my Savior. (Luke 1:47)
But can you show me instances of aorist verbs being used to convey a
timeless sense within narrations of action or events in the Gospels? At this
moment I don't recall any that have come across to me as anything other than
a simple past. (I'm probably forgetting something obvious.)
Webb Mealy

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: frjsilver at optonline.net [mailto:frjsilver at optonline.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:25 AM
> To: webb at selftest.net
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Mark 6:41
> 
> Dear Friends --
> 
> One frequently neglected aspect of the Greek imperfect tense is
incipience, an
> action started but not completed in the grammar of at least that section
of the
> narrative.
> 
> In this case, it's possible to say that 'Jesus began to break the
bread....'
> 
> Of course, 'was breaking' (progressive aspect) might work as well.  Let
your context
> be your guide.
> 
> The aorist, though, seems to me like it might be employed sometimes in the
> Gospels and Letters much as I find it in the Greek 70 (especially in the
Psalms),
> representing a habitual or durative aspect rather than a past tense of any
sort, and
> -- for that -- perhaps best rendered in English (at least) by a simple
present-tense
> form.  I call these verbs 'aoristic' rather than aorist, strictly
speaking.
> 
> Peace and blessings to all.
> 
> Father James Silver
> 
> Monk James
> Orthodox Church in America
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
> Date: Thursday, June 8, 2006 12:12 pm
> Subject: [B-Greek] Mark 6:41
> 
> > My take:
> > It's very hard to pin the sense of the aorist down in a brief
> > statement. In
> > a narrative context like this, it's like a simple past in English.
> > It's not
> > that it tells you that the verbal action happened in such-and-such
> > a way,
> > but just that it happened. Depending on the context, that may
> > typicallyleave the reader with one or the other impression, just
> > as in English. It's
> > the "unmarked" (or "unremarkable", if that conveys more meaning)
> > tense-form
> > for narrative writing.
> >
> > However, the imperfect does indeed say more than that it just
> > happened. It
> > suggests some kind of extension in time. Whether that be by
> > repetition, by
> > getting started ("inception"), by the notion that something went
> > on "for a
> > while", in any case the idea of extension does come in.
> >
> > My rendering of Mark 6:41 takes care to convey the force of the
> > imperfect:
> > And he broke up the loaves, and was giving them to his followers,
> > so they
> > could serve the people.
> >
> > If you're asking if the disciples experienced multiplication of
> > the bread as
> > they handed it out, I'd say that the text doesn't answer that one
> > way or the
> > other. I suppose the general impression is that Jesus continuously or
> > repeatedly handed out portions of broken bread to the disciples - even
> > though he only started with a small handful of loaves.
> > Webb Mealy
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Norman Wood
> > > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 4:42 AM
> > > To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Subject: [B-Greek] Mark 6:41
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > KAI KATEKLASEN TOUS hARTOUS KAI EDIDOU TOIS MAQHTAIS hINA
> > > PARTIQWSIN AUTOIS
> > >
> > > Mounce says "that the imperfect indicates a continuous action
> > normallyoccuring in
> > > the past"
> > >
> > > Does this mean that he broke(aorist) the bread ( a one off
> > action) , then
> > with
> > > EDIDOU that Jesus continued to give out bread to the disciples
> > as they
> > served it to
> > > the men present, the increase in bread occuring with him and
> > being passed
> > on?
> > >
> > >
> > > All the best
> > > Norman Wood
> > > Scotland
> > >
> > > ---
> > > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> > > B-Greek mailing list
> > > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >





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