[B-Greek] hAMA AND 1 Thessalonians 4:17
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Jun 20 16:06:22 EDT 2006
This was sent to me but the content makes it clear it is intended for
the entire list. CWC
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Rod Rogers" <rngrogers at earthlink.net>
> Date: June 20, 2006 2:24:28 PM EDT
> To: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] hAMA AND 1 Thessalonians 4:17
>
> I don't want to discourage anyone else from
> commenting on this thread but I would like to say
> that I appreciate all the comments received so
> far. B-Greek'ers have been a big help to me over
> the years.
>
> Thanks,
> rod rogers
> Bargersville, In
>
> PS Carl, I hope retirement is everything you hoped
> it would be. George, if you ever come back to IN
> (Kokomo) and get tangled up in the loop, heading
> south, stop by! We can sit on the porch and sip
> ice tea if nothing else.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> To: "Rod Rogers" <rngrogers at earthlink.net>
> Cc: "B-Greek B-Greek" <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>;
> "Jonathan Robie" <jonathan.robie at datadirect.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] hAMA AND 1 Thessalonians
> 4:17
>
>
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2006, at 11:33 PM, Rod Rogers wrote:
>>
>>> I have a question on 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
> This
>>> was discussed somewhat back in June 2000 but
> not
>>> as complete as I need. Here is the text:
>>>
>>> EPEITA hHMEIS hOI ZWNTES hOI PERILEIPOMENOI
> hAMA
>>> SUN AUTOIS h ARPAGHSOMEQA EN NEFELAIS EIS
>>> APANTHSIN TOU KURIOU AERA KAI hOUTWS PANTOTE
> SUN
>>> KURIW ESOMEQA.
>>>
>>> My questions are, 1. Can hAMA be translated as
>>> either an adverb or an adverbial preposition
>>> (improper preposition)? 2. Is there any
> possible
>>> way (grammatically) to make hAMA SUN AUTOIS to
>>> modify EN NEFELAIS making the translation say
> that
>>> the dead are raised (all the way to "in the
>>> clouds") first and then, EPEITA, the hOI
> ZWNTES
>>> PERILEIPOMENOI are caught up to be united with
> the
>>> resurrected dead?
>>
>> (1) I think that hAMA must govern SUN AUTOIS
> "simultaneously with them"
>> (2) I think the phrase hAMA SUN AUTOIS must be
> construed as governing
>> adverbially the verb hARPAGHSOMEQA
>>
>>> Thanks for your considering this text. I think
> the
>>> Greek translates fairly easily here but a
>>> gentleman claiming seminary level Greek is
>>> positive that hAMA does not indicate that both
>>> groups are caught up "at the same time", and
> that
>>> "together" refers to the "result" of
> hARPAGHSOMEQA
>>> not "how" they are caught up. Being the
> country
>>> bumpkin that I am I though I'd as you folks.
>>
>> I'd say: don't let the "gentleman claiming
> seminary level Greek"
>> intimidate you, even if you claim to be a
> "country bumpkin." My own
>> conviction is that the authority of one
> expounding any proposition
>> doesn't derive from years of education or
> degrees held but rather
>> from the evidence adduced for the proposition
> and the cogency of the
>> argument presented. This is one reason I never
> liked the putative
>> distinction between "big Greeks" and "little
> Greeks" first raised by
>> our illustrious list-owner. Sometimes simple
> facts are recognized
>> more quickly (and accurately) by
> wet-behind-the-ears newbies than by
>> grizzled "scholars."
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University
> (Retired)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828)
> 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>>
>>
>
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