[B-Greek] OIDA vs. GINOSKO
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sat May 27 06:49:24 EDT 2006
The verb is GINWSKW, not GINOSKO. Our archives are replete with
discussions of this question. The fact is, as has been already noted,
that there is considerable overlap in usage even if in earlier Greek
there was more of a clear distinction, OIDA corresponding to to
German WISSEN, French SAVOIR, GINWSKW to German KENNEN, French
CONNAI^TRE.
On May 26, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Dave Smith (REL110, 211,212) wrote:
> Carlton,
>
> I wonder if we might consider that Romans 5:3 is actually experiential
> knowledge, at least it may be the case for St. Paul: EIDOTES hOTI
> hH QLIPSIS
> hUPOMONHN KATERGAZETAI, hH DE hUPOMONH DOKIMHN, hH DE DOKIMH
> ELPIDA. It may
> be the that we know that hardtimes generate perseverance in some, but
> definitely not in all. But St. Paul knew from his own experience
> that his
> hard times had generated a greater perseverance in his own life.2
> Cor. 1:7
> may carry the same idea. It think this may be where OIDA may be
> more than
> data as also Romans 6:16; 7:14, 18; 8:26. Now when St. Paul uses
> the phrase
> hH OUK OIDATE, he is most often referring to data, and this is very
> common
> in I Corinthians. There is also the use of the two together, such
> as OIDAMEN
> hOTI PANTES GNOSIS ECOMEN (I Cor. 8:1).
That text should be OIDAMEN hOTI PANTES GNWSIN ECOMEN. Yes, OIDAMEN
here does mean awareness of a fact, but GNWSIN here has the specific
sense that it has in Gnosticism: privileged vision of reality (L&N
28.17 "esoteric knowledge.")
> In this case, GNOSIS is data. OIDA
> can approach the connotation of understanding, as in both
> references in I
> Cor. 14:11, 16. OIDA can also refer to having a acquaintance, such as
> knowing a person. This could be data, in the sense of knowing about a
> person, but it is more likely experiential (2 Cor. 5:16; 12:2, 3).
> It is
> also used for knowing God, a concept which must exceed raw data
> (Gal.4:8). I
> will cease and desist, but there may be NT examples where OIDA is also
> experiential knowledge, just as GINWSKW.
>
> Judges 21:11(LXX) uses OIDA in context of sexual relations: PASAN
> GUNAIKA
> EIDUIAN KOITHN ARSENOS.
That's odd: my LXX reads PASAN GUNAIKA GINWSKOUSAN KOITHN ARSENOS
here GINWSKW conveys Hebrew YaDHA'
I just don't think that any clear and consistent distinction can be
maintained. See L&N 28.1, 28.7, 29.6, 32.4, 87.12, 23.61, 27.2,
27.18, 31.27, 32.16,
> Dave Smith
> Hudson, NC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carlton Winbery" <winberycl at earthlink.net>
> To: <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 21:37
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] OIDA vs. GINOSKO
>
>
>>> Gentlemen (Ladies too if present:)
>>>
>>> It has been many an eon since I studied the Koine. As a result,
>>> I have
> lost
>>> most of what I gained in those four years. So - this email comes
>>> to you
>>> with the request that you make the distinction between the two terms
>>> appearing in the subject line.
>>>
>>> Your scholarly input will meet with profuse thanks.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Robert C. Quesenbury (ancient new member)
>> rquesenbury at triad.rr.com
>>
>> This question would be better asked concerning specific texts in
>> which the words are used. For good examples of such context see Louw
>> & Nida, Greek English Dictionary.
>>
>> Generally GINWSKW implies experiencing what is known. It can even
>> refer to having sexual relations as in the birth narratives in
>> Matthew. I am unaware of such a use of OIDA. OIDA indicates knowing
>> data factually. However, there are many places in the GNT where the
>> two words are used interchangeably and must be studied in context.,
>>
>> Carlton Winbery
>> --
>> Carlton L. Winbery
>> Retired Professor of Religion
>> Louisiana College
>> 318-448-6103
>> winberycl at earthlink.net
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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>>
> ---
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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