[B-Greek] OIDA vs. GINOSKO

Dave Smith (REL110, 211,212) rel21x at charter.net
Sat May 27 11:59:28 EDT 2006


Rahlfs has two complete texts for the book of Judges.  The reading I offer
for Judges 21:11 is from the second text or Vacticanus. Dr. Conrad is
offering the reading from Alexandrinus. Both readings are in the main texts
of Rahlfs, and not the critical apparatus.

My point was, I don't think the words hold such a fixed distinction in Koine
as they once did in earlier dialects.

Dave Smith
Hudson, NC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
To: "Dave Smith (REL110, 211,212)" <rel21x at charter.net>
Cc: <B-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 06:49
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] OIDA vs. GINOSKO


> The verb is GINWSKW, not GINOSKO. Our archives are replete with
> discussions of this question. The fact is, as has been already noted,
> that there is considerable overlap in usage even if in earlier Greek
> there was more of a clear distinction, OIDA corresponding to to
> German WISSEN, French SAVOIR, GINWSKW to German KENNEN, French
> CONNAI^TRE.
>
> On May 26, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Dave Smith (REL110, 211,212) wrote:
>
> > Carlton,
> >
> > I wonder if we might consider that Romans 5:3 is actually experiential
> > knowledge, at least it may be the case for St. Paul: EIDOTES hOTI
> > hH QLIPSIS
> > hUPOMONHN KATERGAZETAI, hH DE hUPOMONH DOKIMHN, hH DE DOKIMH
> > ELPIDA. It may
> > be the that we know that hardtimes generate perseverance in some, but
> > definitely not in all. But St. Paul knew from his own experience
> > that his
> > hard times had generated a greater perseverance in his own life.2
> > Cor. 1:7
> > may carry the same idea. It think this may be where OIDA may be
> > more than
> > data as also Romans 6:16; 7:14, 18; 8:26. Now when St. Paul uses
> > the phrase
> > hH OUK OIDATE, he is most often referring to data, and this is very
> > common
> > in I Corinthians. There is also the use of the two together, such
> > as OIDAMEN
> > hOTI PANTES GNOSIS ECOMEN (I Cor. 8:1).
>
> That text should be  OIDAMEN hOTI PANTES GNWSIN ECOMEN. Yes, OIDAMEN
> here does mean awareness of a fact, but GNWSIN here has the specific
> sense that it has in Gnosticism: privileged vision of reality (L&N
> 28.17 "esoteric knowledge.")
>
> > In this case, GNOSIS is data. OIDA
> > can approach the connotation of understanding, as in both
> > references in I
> > Cor. 14:11, 16. OIDA can also refer to having a acquaintance, such as
> > knowing a person. This could be data, in the sense of knowing about a
> > person, but it is more likely experiential (2 Cor. 5:16; 12:2, 3).
> > It is
> > also used for knowing God, a concept which must exceed raw data
> > (Gal.4:8). I
> > will cease and desist, but there may be NT examples where OIDA is also
> > experiential knowledge, just as GINWSKW.
> >
> > Judges 21:11(LXX) uses OIDA in context of sexual relations: PASAN
> > GUNAIKA
> > EIDUIAN KOITHN ARSENOS.
>
> That's odd: my LXX reads PASAN GUNAIKA GINWSKOUSAN KOITHN ARSENOS
>
> here GINWSKW conveys Hebrew YaDHA'
>
> I just don't think that any clear and consistent distinction can be
> maintained. See L&N 28.1, 28.7, 29.6, 32.4, 87.12, 23.61, 27.2,
> 27.18, 31.27, 32.16,
>
> > Dave Smith
> > Hudson, NC
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carlton Winbery" <winberycl at earthlink.net>
> > To: <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 21:37
> > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] OIDA vs. GINOSKO



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