[B-Greek] Definiteness

Rolf Furuli furuli at online.no
Sun Oct 8 02:25:39 EDT 2006


Dear Iver,

David Crystal (2001) "A Dictionary of Linguistics and Phonetics" defines 
"definiteness" this way: "A term used in GRAMMAR and SEMANTICS to refer to a 
specific, identifiable entity (or class of entities); it is ususally 
contrasted with INDEFINITE (less often "non-definite"). Definiteness in 
English is generally conveyed through the use of definite DETERMINERS (such 
as this, my) and especially through the definite article, the."

I used "definitness" in this sense.

Crystal defines "indefiniteness" this way: "A term used in GRAMMAR and 
SEMANTICS to refer to an entity (or class of entities) which is not capable 
of specific identification; it is contrasted with DEFINITE. Indefiniteness 
in English is usually conveyed through the use of the indefinite article, a, 
or an indefinite PRONOUN (such as one, some etc.)."

 A concrete substantive (concrete in contrast to abstract) is generic, i.e., 
it belongs to a class. There are also "singular nouns" where the substantive 
is one of its kind, e.g. "God," "the sun". Substantives can also be 
classified as "count-nouns" (they can be counted and has a plural form), 
e.g., "dog; thief," or as "uncount-nouns" (they cannot be counted and have 
no plural form), e.g., "food; sand".

The real issue is: Can a Greek substantive without the article  loose its 
substantival nature and become an adjective when it occurs before the verb? 
In other words, will a generic count-noun loose its membership in its class, 
and can it no longer be counted  when it occurs before the verb? Wallace and 
others seem to imply just that, and in order to find out whether this is 
their view and whether it is well founded I rephrased Wallace´s rule, and 
challenged its proponents to give evidence for it. Your discussion seemed to 
me to signal that the answer is No. And I wanted, and still wants, to know 
if I had understood you correctly.

So let me rephrase my question to you: Can a generic count-noun standing 
before the verb and having no article cease to be a generic count-noun, and 
become an uncount-noun or a quality? Or must we, when we believe that 
quality is in focus, say that here we have a genric count-noun whose 
qualities are stressed rather than its membership in its class or its mere 
existence?


Best regards,

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Iver Larsen" <iver_larsen at sil.org>
To: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli at online.no>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:14 AM
Subject: Definiteness


>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli at online.no>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 8:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Can a Noun function like an Adjective?
>
>
>> Dear Iver,
>>
>> Your discussion below is interesting and fine. If I understand you
>> correctly, as a descriptive linguist you say that a substantive must 
>> either
>> be definite or indefinite, but in addition a substantive may signal
>> characteristics or qualities without loosing its definiteness or
>> indefiniteness. Have I undeerstood you correctly?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Rolf Furuli
>> University of Oslo
>
> I deliberately avoided using the term definite, because it appears to be 
> used in different ways by different people and is therefore confusing. Are 
> you using the term within discourse analysis (participant reference), 
> lexical semantics or syntax? I find it hard to imagine "definiteness" as a 
> property of a word taken out of context.
>
> If you can define the way you use the word, I should be able to respond.
>
> Iver Larsen
>
> 





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