[B-Greek] Definiteness
Iver Larsen
iver_larsen at sil.org
Sun Oct 8 12:29:58 EDT 2006
Dear Rolf,
Thanks for these clarifications. Let me comment below (I sometimes cannot get the brackets to work.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli at online.no>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Definiteness
Dear Iver,
David Crystal (2001) "A Dictionary of Linguistics and Phonetics" defines
"definiteness" this way: "A term used in GRAMMAR and SEMANTICS to refer to a
specific, identifiable entity (or class of entities); it is ususally
contrasted with INDEFINITE (less often "non-definite"). Definiteness in
English is generally conveyed through the use of definite DETERMINERS (such
as this, my) and especially through the definite article, the."
I used "definitness" in this sense.
Crystal defines "indefiniteness" this way: "A term used in GRAMMAR and
SEMANTICS to refer to an entity (or class of entities) which is not capable
of specific identification; it is contrasted with DEFINITE. Indefiniteness
in English is usually conveyed through the use of the indefinite article, a,
or an indefinite PRONOUN (such as one, some etc.)."
Iver:
I can see that I don't agree with Crystal, and his failure to distinguish between grammar and semantics doesn't help.
In gramamtical terms I can accept a certain value in talking about definiteness as a feature of a noun phrase like "this
man" or "my arm", but notice that it cannot be used of a simple noun without a definite determiner. The significance of
a definite or indefinite article with a noun or noun phrase is best handled in discourse studies rather than traditional
grammar a al Crystal or even in semantics. This definition has been made obsolete by discourse linguistics as far as I
can see.
Rolf:
A concrete substantive (concrete in contrast to abstract) is generic, i.e.,
it belongs to a class.
Iver:
It is quite unusual to define "generic" as "belonging to a class". Is that from Crystal, too? The generic-specific
continuum has to do with the size of the membership of the class. Some concrete substantives are more generic than
others.
Rolf:
There are also "singular nouns" where the substantive
is one of its kind, e.g. "God," "the sun".
Iver:
But the concept of "sun" as the central planet of a solar system is not one of its kind. There are many different suns.
It is only if we restrict ourselves to our own solar system, that there is only one sun/Sun.
Whether "God" is one of its kind is also debatable. That depends on one's presuppositions and the context. It is a
convention in English to use a capital letter to indicate uniqueness, but this is not relevant for the exegesis of QEOS
in Greek. It is only relevant for translation into English.
Rolf:
The real issue is: Can a Greek substantive without the article loose its
substantival nature and become an adjective when it occurs before the verb?
Iver:
I don't agree that this is the real issue. The noun doesn't change from a substantive to an adjective, since this is a
purely morphological description and has nothing to do with word order. However, a substantive can be used semantically
to describe another substantive in the same way as an adjective can be used.
Rolf:
In other words, will a generic count-noun loose its membership in its class,
and can it no longer be counted when it occurs before the verb?
Iver:
Again the wrong question, IMO.
Rolf:
Wallace and
others seem to imply just that, and in order to find out whether this is
their view and whether it is well founded I rephrased Wallace´s rule, and
challenged its proponents to give evidence for it. Your discussion seemed to
me to signal that the answer is No. And I wanted, and still wants, to know
if I had understood you correctly.
So let me rephrase my question to you: Can a generic count-noun standing
before the verb and having no article cease to be a generic count-noun, and
become an uncount-noun or a quality? Or must we, when we believe that
quality is in focus, say that here we have a genric count-noun whose
qualities are stressed rather than its membership in its class or its mere
existence?
Iver:
I am afraid you will find it difficult to understand my position if you insist on squeezing my comments into a rigid
framework that I think is misguided. We have moved away from Greek, so I will not comment further along these lines.
Iver Larsen
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