[B-Greek] Question Regarding John 4:11 kurios

William Ross woundedegomusic at gmail.com
Fri Sep 1 15:36:18 EDT 2006


Here is a link that discusses some of the historical implications of
the term KURIOS:

http://www.godstory.net/BiblicalStudies/WeWouldSeeJesus/if_you_will_confess.htm

William Ross
VGB, Argentina


On 9/1/06, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> You are reasoning from English usage to Greek usage which is an invalid
> method (and very hazardous to the truth).  Furthermore, you are confusing
> usage in the Roman Empire with the established usage in Greek language and
> literature.
>
> _________
>
>
> Wounded Ego <woundedegomusic at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have not investigated terms of honor and it may be a useful doctorate
> dissertation for someone, but if I am not mistaken, terms that we tend to
> view as merely showing vague respect are often imbued with very precise
> meaning. For example, a "gentleman" was originally, I believe, intended to
> indicate that the man owned land (I guess rather than worked it himself as a
> serf or slave). A "lord" in English usage related to one who had authority
> over one or more others.
>
> Sarah also referred to Abraham as "KURIE":
>
> 1Pe 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord [KURION]: whose
> daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any
> amazement.
>
> If I am not mistaken, the Roman emperor commandeered this as his title. I am
> inclined to think that in most contexts, Jesus being called "lord" would be
> considered treasonous.
>
> Matthew 8:
> 5 ¶ And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a
> centurion [Roman leader of 100 men, I think], beseeching him,
> 6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously
> tormented.
> 7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
> 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord [KURIE], I am not worthy that thou
> shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall
> be healed.
> 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to
> this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my
> servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
>
> William Ross
> VGB, Argentina
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> yancywsmith
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:54 PM
> To: James Becknell
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Question Regarding John 4:11 kurios
>
> James,
> Many languages employ honorific titles of respect that may be
> indiscriminately applied to people or gods or God. The important
> thing is that the honorific ascribes a certain status to the
> addressee, which may be adjusted in the course of a conversation. In
> Mediterranean cultures, such honorifics were a common part of
> appropriate interpersonal behavior and the use of honorifics was a
> part of daily life in which status was considered very important. In
> this case the point of the story in John hinges upon the woman at the
> well NOT knowing who that Jesus is the messiah until much farther
> into the conversation. In Greek "KURIOS" is one such honorific, and
> in archaic English "Lord" is another. Usage has shifted to to the use
> of "mister" and "sir" for men and "Lord" for people of noble status,
> e.g. in England. So, "sir, lord, Lord, mister" are all acceptable
> glosses of KURIOS, one example in the Greek NT is:
> Mat 13:27. For a fuller listing, see BDAG. Of course it has a broader
> semantic range than this, e.g.
> It is used of a husband as "lord, master, mister" (Sarah to Abraham) in
> 1 Pet 3:6 (not as, "you better shape up, mister" !).
> Ex 22:7 it refers to "head" of a household KURIOS, -A, -ON as an
> adjective is used in the LXX as "valid, lawful, established,
> important" (1 Mac8:30; 2 Mac 8:30; 4 Mac 1:19).
>
>
> Yancy Smith
> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 5636 Wedgworth Rd.
> Fort Worth, TX 76133
> 817-361-7565
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 1, 2006, at 11:18 AM, James Becknell wrote:
>
> > I am interested to know if anyone understands why kurios is
> > rendered as
> > sir in John 4:11? I understand its use as a title for the purpose of
> > formal address, but I was wondering how it is concluded that the
> > Samaritan woman is not referring to Jesus as lord, but as sir? Are
> > there any other places where this is brought out into English as sir?
> >
> >
> > ---
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>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
> ________________________________
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>
>


-- 

William Ross
VGB, Argentina



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