[B-Greek] Question Regarding John 4:11 kurios
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 1 19:13:04 EDT 2006
Note what Werner Foerster says in TDNT s.v. KURIOS
Again, the Jews, who rejected emperor worship, could still dedicate a synagogue hUPER SWTHRIAS TWN KURIWN hHMWN KAISARWN AUTOKRATORWN L. SEPTIMIOU SEOUNHROU EUSEBOU PERTINAKOS SEBASTOU KTL. This shows incidentally how attenuated in 197 a.d. was the word SEBASTOW, which originally expressed the religious dignity of the emperor. But it shows particularly that the Jews had no hesitation in styling their rulers of hOI KURIOI hHMWN.

Theological dictionary of the New Testament. 1964-c1976. Vols. 5-9 edited by Gerhard Friedrich. Vol. 10 compiled by Ronald Pitkin. (G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley & G. Friedrich, Ed.) (electronic ed.) (3:1058). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.
_____________
William Ross <woundedegomusic at gmail.com> wrote:
Here is a link that discusses some of the historical implications of
the term KURIOS:
http://www.godstory.net/BiblicalStudies/WeWouldSeeJesus/if_you_will_confess.htm
William Ross
VGB, Argentina
On 9/1/06, George F Somsel wrote:
>
> You are reasoning from English usage to Greek usage which is an invalid
> method (and very hazardous to the truth). Furthermore, you are confusing
> usage in the Roman Empire with the established usage in Greek language and
> literature.
>
> _________
>
>
> Wounded Ego wrote:
> I have not investigated terms of honor and it may be a useful doctorate
> dissertation for someone, but if I am not mistaken, terms that we tend to
> view as merely showing vague respect are often imbued with very precise
> meaning. For example, a "gentleman" was originally, I believe, intended to
> indicate that the man owned land (I guess rather than worked it himself as a
> serf or slave). A "lord" in English usage related to one who had authority
> over one or more others.
>
> Sarah also referred to Abraham as "KURIE":
>
> 1Pe 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord [KURION]: whose
> daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any
> amazement.
>
> If I am not mistaken, the Roman emperor commandeered this as his title. I am
> inclined to think that in most contexts, Jesus being called "lord" would be
> considered treasonous.
>
> Matthew 8:
> 5 ¶ And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a
> centurion [Roman leader of 100 men, I think], beseeching him,
> 6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously
> tormented.
> 7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
> 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord [KURIE], I am not worthy that thou
> shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall
> be healed.
> 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to
> this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my
> servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
>
> William Ross
> VGB, Argentina
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> yancywsmith
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:54 PM
> To: James Becknell
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Question Regarding John 4:11 kurios
>
> James,
> Many languages employ honorific titles of respect that may be
> indiscriminately applied to people or gods or God. The important
> thing is that the honorific ascribes a certain status to the
> addressee, which may be adjusted in the course of a conversation. In
> Mediterranean cultures, such honorifics were a common part of
> appropriate interpersonal behavior and the use of honorifics was a
> part of daily life in which status was considered very important. In
> this case the point of the story in John hinges upon the woman at the
> well NOT knowing who that Jesus is the messiah until much farther
> into the conversation. In Greek "KURIOS" is one such honorific, and
> in archaic English "Lord" is another. Usage has shifted to to the use
> of "mister" and "sir" for men and "Lord" for people of noble status,
> e.g. in England. So, "sir, lord, Lord, mister" are all acceptable
> glosses of KURIOS, one example in the Greek NT is:
> Mat 13:27. For a fuller listing, see BDAG. Of course it has a broader
> semantic range than this, e.g.
> It is used of a husband as "lord, master, mister" (Sarah to Abraham) in
> 1 Pet 3:6 (not as, "you better shape up, mister" !).
> Ex 22:7 it refers to "head" of a household KURIOS, -A, -ON as an
> adjective is used in the LXX as "valid, lawful, established,
> important" (1 Mac8:30; 2 Mac 8:30; 4 Mac 1:19).
>
>
> Yancy Smith
> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 5636 Wedgworth Rd.
> Fort Worth, TX 76133
> 817-361-7565
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 1, 2006, at 11:18 AM, James Becknell wrote:
>
> > I am interested to know if anyone understands why kurios is
> > rendered as
> > sir in John 4:11? I understand its use as a title for the purpose of
> > formal address, but I was wondering how it is concluded that the
> > Samaritan woman is not referring to Jesus as lord, but as sir? Are
> > there any other places where this is brought out into English as sir?
> >
> >
> > ---
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>
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>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
> ________________________________
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>
--
William Ross
VGB, Argentina
---
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george
gfsomsel
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