[B-Greek] Fwd: Question Regarding John 4:11 kurios

cwestf5155 at aol.com cwestf5155 at aol.com
Sat Sep 2 21:51:18 EDT 2006


 Dear Bryant,
 
 Yeah, OIKADESPOTEW with its cognate OIKADESPOTHS involes a wife's authority or rule over her household, which would incude any household slaves, etc. Some of the more common glosses of "manage" or "keep house" lose something in translation.
 
 Cindy Westfall
 Assistant Professor
 McMaster Divinity College
 
  
 -----Original Message-----
 From: bjwvmw at com-pair.net
 To: kline_dekooning at earthlink.net; B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
 Sent: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 6:02 PM
 Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Fwd: Question Regarding John 4:11 kurios
 
  Dear Cindy,

How about OIKIADESPOTHS in I Timothy 5:14, BOULOMAI hOUV NEWTERAS GAMEIN,
TEKNOGONEIN, OIKIADESPOTEIN, MHDEMIAN AFORMHN DIDONAI TWi ANTIKEIMENWi
LOIDORIAS XARIN;...?

En Xristwi,

Rev Bryant J. Williams III


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: "greek" <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Fwd: Question Regarding John 4:11 kurios


>
> On Sep 2, 2006, at 9:31 AM, cwestf5155 at aol.com wrote:
>
> > I don't know why the idea that "Sarah didn't just just say 'Mister'
> > to Abraham" is an a priori assumption, or maybe again, it is an
> > issue of the perceived semantic range of both KURIOS and "Mister"
> > and also how English has changed.
> >
> >  "Mister" has been used to indicate honor and respect in English-- 
> > so some parents still train their children to refer to a friend as
> > "Mr. Jones" rather than by their first name. There was an old-
> > fashioned practice where spouses also referred to each other as
> > "Mr." and "Mrs." as a sign of respect and where a titled wife might
> > refer to her spouse as "Lord..." or by his last name alone which
> > had an honorific association--and Abraham's high status would
> > overlap here--after all, Sarah was called "princess".
> >
> >  Such uses of "Mr." are clearly shifting, though I think we
> > recognize it when we see it.
> >
> >  Titles that indicate honor and respect collocate with authority,
> > but the use of KURIOS does not always convey authority, so that is
> > not part of its minimal definition--it has to be inferred from the
> > context.
>
> Cindy,
>
> This reminds me of another title which is difficult to render into
> current English.
> DESPOINA the feminine equivalent of DESPOTHS is used with the names
> of goddesses.
> Lady Artemis or Mistress Artemis both fail to communicate in
> contemporary English. Do we have a term for a female in a position of
> authority which could serve for DESPOINA? Queen Artemis doesn't
> really work either.
>
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
>
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