[B-Greek] DIAPONHQEIS ... KAI EPISTREYAS Acts 16:18
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Mon Sep 11 16:07:22 EDT 2006
It sounds to me as though we agree that although the author intends to indicate that the slave girl was being a real P in the A with the result that Paul was annoyed, turned around and told her (well, the "spirit") where to get off but that it doesn't lie in the syntax. That is all I was trying to convey.
_________
"Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
On Sep 11, 2006, at 3:45 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
> Certainly it's perfectly clear what occasions his action. My point
> is that it is not indicated by the syntax. If you think it is,
> show me what features would point this out. I'm saying that it is
> rhetorically achieved by the simple juxtaposition of the events.
I begin to think that we're treating categories of participles the
same way we treat adnominal genitives, as if there really IS a
syntactic difference in the Greek between a subjective genitive and
an objective genitive; likewise there really IS a syntactic
difference between a causal participle or concessive participle or
circumstantial participle. To me it seemed a breakthrough of
understanding when I first saw that CUM + subjunctive clauses in
Latin (and ablative absolutes, like genitive absolutes in Greek)
simply say, "The circumstance being that X ... " -- and that whether
you translate a particular CUM + subjunctive clause as "when ...,"
"since ...," "although ..." really is a matter of interpretation that
may be assisted by the presence of other particles or adverbs -- NOT
a matter of the syntactic structure itself bearing three or more
subcategories of meaning.
> _________
>
>
> "Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
>
> On Sep 11, 2006, at 2:05 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>
>> It appears to me that it is simply attendant circumstance --
>> certainly not purpose.
>
> I don't think anyone suggested PURPOSE -- CAUSE was suggested.
> I would agree with Elizabeth here against Culy and Parsons. I think
> the two aorist
> participles and the aorist indicative could be understood as
> sequential, "Paul was
> disturbed and he turned back and spoke to the spirit, ... " Call them
> participles of "
> attendant circumstance," if it pleases you, but it's perfectly clear
> that Paul's behavior
> is occasioned by his reaction to the behavior of the demoniac slave-
> girl.
>
>> _____________
>>
>>
>> Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>> ACTS 16:16 EGENETO DE POREUOMENWN hHMWN EIS THN PROSEUCHN PAIDISKHN
>> TINA ECOUSAN PNEUMA PUQWNA hUPANTHSAI hHMIN, hHTIS ERGASIAN POLLHN
>> PAREICEN TOIS KURIOIS AUTHS MANTEUOMENH. 17 hAUTH KATAKOLOUQOUSA TWi
>> PAULWi KAI hHMIN EKRAZEN LEGOUSA: hOUTOI hOI ANQRWPOI DOULOI TOU QEOU
>> TOU hUYISTOU EISIN, hOITINES KATAGGELLOUSIN hUMIN hODON SWTHRIAS. 18
>> TOUTO DE EPOIEI EPI POLLAS hHMERAS. DIAPONHQEIS DE PAULOS KAI
>> EPISTREYAS TWi PNEUMATI EIPEN: PARAGGELLW SOI EN ONOMATI IHSOU
>> CRISTOU EXELQEIN AP' AUTHS: KAI EXHLQEN AUTHi THi hWRAi.
>>
>> Parsons/Culy (Acts Handbook) argue that the function of DIAPONHQEIS
>> in Acts 16:18 cannot be causal because it is linked to EPISTREYAS
>> which is not causal. This may have the support of greek syntax
>> according to the rules but semantically it is counter intuitive.
>> There appears to be an obvious cause and effect relationship between
>> DIAPONHQEIS and Paul's subsequent action.
>>
>>
>> Elizabeth Kline
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>> _________
>>
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>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>
>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
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> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
george
gfsomsel
_________
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