[B-Greek] DIAPONHQEIS ... KAI EPISTREYAS Acts 16:18
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Sep 12 06:06:17 EDT 2006
On Sep 11, 2006, at 4:07 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
> It sounds to me as though we agree that although the author intends
> to indicate that the slave girl was being a real P in the A with
> the result that Paul was annoyed, turned around and told her (well,
> the "spirit") where to get off but that it doesn't lie in the
> syntax. That is all I was trying to convey.
Yes, I agree (that we agree on this point). But I think the important
point here (and Elizabeth seems to agree with me on this) is that the
adverbial participle, unless accompanied by other semantic indicators
(e.g. KAIPER, hAMA, or the like), does not indicate at all precisely
what the adverbial relationship of the participle is to whatever it
attaches.
> "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
>
> On Sep 11, 2006, at 3:45 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>
>> Certainly it's perfectly clear what occasions his action. My point
>> is that it is not indicated by the syntax. If you think it is,
>> show me what features would point this out. I'm saying that it is
>> rhetorically achieved by the simple juxtaposition of the events.
>
> I begin to think that we're treating categories of participles the
> same way we treat adnominal genitives, as if there really IS a
> syntactic difference in the Greek between a subjective genitive and
> an objective genitive; likewise there really IS a syntactic
> difference between a causal participle or concessive participle or
> circumstantial participle. To me it seemed a breakthrough of
> understanding when I first saw that CUM + subjunctive clauses in
> Latin (and ablative absolutes, like genitive absolutes in Greek)
> simply say, "The circumstance being that X ... " -- and that whether
> you translate a particular CUM + subjunctive clause as "when ...,"
> "since ...," "although ..." really is a matter of interpretation that
> may be assisted by the presence of other particles or adverbs -- NOT
> a matter of the syntactic structure itself bearing three or more
> subcategories of meaning.
>
>> _________
>>
>>
>> "Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 11, 2006, at 2:05 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>>
>>> It appears to me that it is simply attendant circumstance --
>>> certainly not purpose.
>>
>> I don't think anyone suggested PURPOSE -- CAUSE was suggested.
>> I would agree with Elizabeth here against Culy and Parsons. I think
>> the two aorist
>> participles and the aorist indicative could be understood as
>> sequential, "Paul was
>> disturbed and he turned back and spoke to the spirit, ... " Call them
>> participles of "
>> attendant circumstance," if it pleases you, but it's perfectly clear
>> that Paul's behavior
>> is occasioned by his reaction to the behavior of the demoniac slave-
>> girl.
>>
>>> _____________
>>>
>>>
>>> Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>>> ACTS 16:16 EGENETO DE POREUOMENWN hHMWN EIS THN PROSEUCHN PAIDISKHN
>>> TINA ECOUSAN PNEUMA PUQWNA hUPANTHSAI hHMIN, hHTIS ERGASIAN POLLHN
>>> PAREICEN TOIS KURIOIS AUTHS MANTEUOMENH. 17 hAUTH KATAKOLOUQOUSA TWi
>>> PAULWi KAI hHMIN EKRAZEN LEGOUSA: hOUTOI hOI ANQRWPOI DOULOI TOU
>>> QEOU
>>> TOU hUYISTOU EISIN, hOITINES KATAGGELLOUSIN hUMIN hODON SWTHRIAS. 18
>>> TOUTO DE EPOIEI EPI POLLAS hHMERAS. DIAPONHQEIS DE PAULOS KAI
>>> EPISTREYAS TWi PNEUMATI EIPEN: PARAGGELLW SOI EN ONOMATI IHSOU
>>> CRISTOU EXELQEIN AP' AUTHS: KAI EXHLQEN AUTHi THi hWRAi.
>>>
>>> Parsons/Culy (Acts Handbook) argue that the function of DIAPONHQEIS
>>> in Acts 16:18 cannot be causal because it is linked to EPISTREYAS
>>> which is not causal. This may have the support of greek syntax
>>> according to the rules but semantically it is counter intuitive.
>>> There appears to be an obvious cause and effect relationship between
>>> DIAPONHQEIS and Paul's subsequent action.
>>>
>>>
>>> Elizabeth Kline
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
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>>>
>>>
>>> george
>>> gfsomsel
>>> _________
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
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>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>> _________
>>
>> ---------------------------------
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>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
>> B-Greek mailing list
>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>
>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
> ---------------------------------
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> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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