[B-Greek] Aorist and Imperfect: points of consensus

Rolf Furuli furuli at online.no
Fri Sep 22 13:46:21 EDT 2006


Dear list-members,

I regret that the thread on tense and aspect somtimes have been rather
difficult to follow. Below I will try to express the points where I see
agreement between the participants and where we disagree.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
To: "Brian Abasciano" <bvabasciano at gmail.com>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Aorist and Imperfect: points of consensus


>
> On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:42 PM, Brian Abasciano wrote:
>
>> Carl,
>>
>> Would you mind stating what you think the matters of consensus are
>> that have emerged from the discussion. I think that would be very
>> valuable for all who have followed the discussion, but may be
>> confused by the varying views.
>
> I think it would be valuable too -- the more valuable under an
> authentic subject-header rather than an empty one.
>
> I have been gratified to read, on several occasions in the course of
> these exchanges, something like, "I agree that ... but." It's pretty
> clear that there's also a considerable range of perspectives that
> perhaps cannot be resolved. Nevertheless, I have had a different gut
> feeling about this discussion than about many previous ones in this
> forum on the matter of verbal aspect in the ancient Greek verb: I've
> always felt in the past that the conversation is to a considerable
> extent a Babel-tower of conversants addressing each other in
> different dialects and barely making themselves understood to others;
> it has seemed to me that there's been more real communication taking
> place this time around -- unless I'm deceiving myself.
>
> I think it would be perilous (let alone beyond my ability) to attempt
> any formulation of all that has  agreed upon by the participants in
> this thread that opened on Sept 5 with a message from Paul Evans. I
> do wish that we might perhaps have a short list of focal points upon
> which those who wish may endeavor BRIEF(?) notes about what they
> think they agree on and where they differ from others. Some such
> points (there would be several others, I think) should certainly be
> included (I hope we can keep the focus on ancient Greek and not go
> off on a tangent about broader issues in Linguistics):
>
> 1. What is meant by the term "verbal aspect" with reference to the
> ancient Greek verb?

I think all agree that aspect is a viewpoint, perhaps even a subjective one.
But the understanding of the nature of this "viewpoint" differs greatly.

> 2. What is meant by the term "Aktionsart" with reference to the
> ancient Greek verb?

I think all agree that Aktionsart is the nature of the verb expressed by its
lexical meaning. Aktionsart properties are durativity (continuation),
dynamicity (change), telicity (the end is conceptually included "to build a
house"), and punctiliarity (momentary actions). I restrict Aktionsart to
what is expressed by the single verb; others will also include properties
that occur in the interplay of the verb, subject, object and adverbials,
such as iterativity, habitualness, etc. I call such phenomena "procedural
traits".

> 3. Is there consensus on the meaning of terms such as "perfective,"
> "imperfective," "stative," etc. (what other terms belong here?)

I think all agree regarding the meaning of "stative", but differ greatly as 
to the meaning
of "imperfective" and "perfective".

> 3. How do the ancient Greek Indicative-mood forms differ in meaning
> from the Non-indicative-mood forms?

This has not been discussed, so I do not know the different views.

> 4. What does the augment signify in ancient Greek imperfect, aorist,
> and pluperfect Indicative-mood forms?

Here is disagreement. Some say it signals past tense and others not.

> 5. How does the ancient Greek Indicative Imperfect differ in meaning
> from the Indicative Aorist?

I think there is agreement that Indicative Imperfect expresses the
imperfective aspect and past tense, and that Indicative Aorist expresses the
perfective aspect. There is disagreement as to whether the aorist also
expresses past tense.

> 6. Is temporal reference grammaticalized in any of the ancient Greek
> Indicative "tenses"? If not, how does a speaker/hearer/reader
> recognize temporal reference?

There is disagreement here. Some would say that tense is grammaticalized in
Imperfect and Future; others would also include Aorist. No one has expressed
that tense is grammaticalized in Present. Some would say that temporal
reference is gathered from the context when forms without tense are used,
others would say that the forms themselves signal temporal reference.
>
> I don't think that's an exhaustive listing of questions that have
> been dealt with. At least a couple others that have been at least
> tangentially discussed are:
>
> 7. Does the ancient Greek Indicative future "tense" have aspect?

See 6 above.

> 8. Can the ancient Greek Indicative present "tense" be adequately
> characterized in terms of its aspect?

I think there is agreement that Indicative present expresses the 
imperfective aspect. I have not seen that anyone has claime it also is a 
tense.
BTW,I would argue the English simple present is not a tense.

9. One list-memeber asked regarding "deictic center".

I think there is agreement as to what is meant by "deictic center", and also 
that the deictic center in most instances is speech time. But there is 
disagreement as to where the deictic center is in particular clauses.
>
>
> I'm not sure whether this is a helpful way of going about this effort
> or not; if anyone has a better idea, please come forward and propose
> a more useful interrogatory.
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

If I have presented someone´s view in a wrong way, please correct me.
I will send a post with comment Randall´s suggestions for research, and that 
is my last post regarding tense and aspect.

Best regards,

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo 





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