[B-Greek] KAI...DE in Jn 8:17

Webb webb at selftest.net
Fri Sep 29 17:06:37 EDT 2006


Dear George,

 

So, would one translate 8:16 as

 

"And even if I do judge, my judgment is true",

 

And 8:17 as

 

"And even [though] it's written in your law that the testimony of two people
is true, I am the one person testifying, and the Father who sent me is
testifying.

 

That's very tempting-does anyone want to contradict the principle of
applying BDF's subordinate clause interpretation of the KAI.DE in 8:16 to
8:17? 

 

Thanks for the BDF ref., George. I think I need to have it on my desk.

 

Webb Mealy

p.s. I'll be out of town for two days, so I won't reply to any comments
until Monday.

  _____  

From: George F Somsel [mailto:gfsomsel at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 1:02 PM
To: Webb; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] KAI...DE in Jn 8:17

 

The construction is the same as in Jn 8.16.  Regarding that verse BDF states

 

475. The position of conjunctions. (1) As in classical Greek, there are some
exceptions (especially in Paul) to the obvious rule that the subordinating
conjunctions stand at the beginning of the dependent clause. In such cases
elements belonging to the subordinate clause which are to be emphasized
precede the conjunction:  . . . . Jn 8:16 KAI EAN KRINW DE EGW ('Even if I
however'), and partly by the choice of the author, as for example when a
preposition with its object or a noun with an attributive gen. precede the
conjunction.[1] 

 


 

george
gfsomsel
_________ 

 

----- Original Message ----
From: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 2:18:41 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] KAI...DE in Jn 8:17

KAI EN TWi NOMWi DE TWi hUMETERWi GEGRAPTAI.

I'm tempted to treat this as concessive, as in "Indeed, it is written in
your law" (because, after conceding that he needs two witnesses, he is going
to state his second witness in the next verse). Can anyone shed light on
KAI.DE constructions? I called up all the NT examples I could find using
GramCord and I can't see any obvious special meaning, other than maybe
"moreover".

Webb Mealy



For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law
ought to be king; and there ought to be no other. (Thomas Paine)

When there is no truth in the world, anyone who wants to turn away from evil
has no choice but to play the fool (Rabbi Nachman)



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  _____  

[1]Blass, F., Debrunner, A., & Funk, R. W. (1961). A Greek grammar of the
New Testament and other early Christian literature (p 251). Chicago:
University of Chicago Press.




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