[B-Greek] QEOS in Dialogue with Heraclides

frjsilver at optonline.net frjsilver at optonline.net
Wed Apr 18 09:59:30 EDT 2007


D'accord!  James Ernst and George Somsel have this right, I think.

One other stylistic option, though, would be to place TO *before* TIMIOTERON, which I suppose might make it a little clearer, but that's not how Heraklides wrote.

The signal was, as Octavio Rodriguez rightly first noticed, that there's a lack of concord between TO and QEOS which needed some resolution.  And we resolved it here!

This List is so great!

CRISTOS ANESTH!

Father James Silver

Monk James
Orthodox Church in America


----- Original Message -----
From: James Ernest 
Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:33 pm
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] QEOS in Dialogue with Heraclides
To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org

> Octavio,
> 
> The neuter article TO is being used as a marker of a word-as-
> word; we
> would use quotation marks. The discussion in the Dialogue has been
> about twos that are one: the man and the woman are one SARX in
> Genesis; the righteous person who cleaves to Christ is one 
> PNEUMA. But
> the right word for that which is one between the Lord/Savior and the
> Father/God is not SARX or PNEUMA but QEOS. That's why the Sources
> Chretiennes editor actually puts quotation marks in the Greek 
> text: of
> course there are no quotation marks in the ancient Greek manuscripts,
> so TO is used instead.
> 
> (The neuter demonstrative adjective "illud" can be used 
> similarly in Latin.)
> 
> So just add quotation marks to George's translation, delete "the"
> before spirit (because that TO is also a quotation mark--it 
> would be
> TO even if PNEUMA were not neuter), and I think you've got it:
> 
> "The appellation is not 'flesh' or 'Spirit' but, what is more 
> precious, 'God.'"
> 
> James Ernest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/12/07, Octavio Rodriguez wrote:
> > In his Dialogue with Heraclides Origen said:
> >
> > "For when human beings are joined to each other, the 
> appropiate word is
> > "flesh", and when the just person is united to Christ, the 
> word is "spirit";
> > and when Christ is united to the Father OU SARX, OU TO PNEUMA 
> ONOMA, ALLA
> > TOUTWN TIMIWTERON TO QEOS. "
> >
> > The first question is about the neuter article TO. It seems 
> that it is
> > related to QEOS which is however male in gender. If i am 
> right, the
> > translation could be:
> >
> > "Not flesh and spirit, but which is much more precious, the 
> god nature".
> >
> > I think that QEOS here seems to be a mass noun rather than a 
> definite noun,
> > due to the neuter article, and what "flesh" and "spirit" are 
> grammaticaly.>
> > I would appreciate other translation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Octavio Rodriguez
> > ---
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> >
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