[B-Greek] QEOS in Dialogue with Heraclides

Curtis Hinson curtis at curtishinson.com
Wed Apr 18 11:55:51 EDT 2007


ALIQOS ANESTH!  NAI, EINI POLLI KALA.

Curtis Hinson
http://curtishinson.com

frjsilver at optonline.net wrote the following on 4/18/2007 8:59 AM:
> D'accord!  James Ernst and George Somsel have this right, I think.
>
> One other stylistic option, though, would be to place TO *before* TIMIOTERON, which I suppose might make it a little clearer, but that's not how Heraklides wrote.
>
> The signal was, as Octavio Rodriguez rightly first noticed, that there's a lack of concord between TO and QEOS which needed some resolution.  And we resolved it here!
>
> This List is so great!
>
> CRISTOS ANESTH!
>
> Father James Silver
>
> Monk James
> Orthodox Church in America
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Ernest 
> Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:33 pm
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] QEOS in Dialogue with Heraclides
> To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>
>   
>> Octavio,
>>
>> The neuter article TO is being used as a marker of a word-as-
>> word; we
>> would use quotation marks. The discussion in the Dialogue has been
>> about twos that are one: the man and the woman are one SARX in
>> Genesis; the righteous person who cleaves to Christ is one 
>> PNEUMA. But
>> the right word for that which is one between the Lord/Savior and the
>> Father/God is not SARX or PNEUMA but QEOS. That's why the Sources
>> Chretiennes editor actually puts quotation marks in the Greek 
>> text: of
>> course there are no quotation marks in the ancient Greek manuscripts,
>> so TO is used instead.
>>
>> (The neuter demonstrative adjective "illud" can be used 
>> similarly in Latin.)
>>
>> So just add quotation marks to George's translation, delete "the"
>> before spirit (because that TO is also a quotation mark--it 
>> would be
>> TO even if PNEUMA were not neuter), and I think you've got it:
>>
>> "The appellation is not 'flesh' or 'Spirit' but, what is more 
>> precious, 'God.'"
>>
>> James Ernest
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/12/07, Octavio Rodriguez wrote:
>>     
>>> In his Dialogue with Heraclides Origen said:
>>>
>>> "For when human beings are joined to each other, the 
>>>       
>> appropiate word is
>>     
>>> "flesh", and when the just person is united to Christ, the 
>>>       
>> word is "spirit";
>>     
>>> and when Christ is united to the Father OU SARX, OU TO PNEUMA 
>>>       
>> ONOMA, ALLA
>>     
>>> TOUTWN TIMIWTERON TO QEOS. "
>>>
>>> The first question is about the neuter article TO. It seems 
>>>       
>> that it is
>>     
>>> related to QEOS which is however male in gender. If i am 
>>>       
>> right, the
>>     
>>> translation could be:
>>>
>>> "Not flesh and spirit, but which is much more precious, the 
>>>       
>> god nature".
>>     
>>> I think that QEOS here seems to be a mass noun rather than a 
>>>       
>> definite noun,
>>     
>>> due to the neuter article, and what "flesh" and "spirit" are 
>>>       
>> grammaticaly.>
>>     
>>> I would appreciate other translation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Octavio Rodriguez
>>> ---
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>>>       
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>>     
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