[B-Greek] LXX -Isaiah 9:6 and Daniel 9:25

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Thu Dec 20 14:33:26 EST 2007


By mistake I had sent this to David alone. Sorry.
Al

Let me begin with your closing sentence, since it seems to suggest a  
textual relationship between Greek Isaiah and Theodotionic Daniel  
that does not exist and should in any case not be assumed. That is to  
say, Greek Isaiah was produced by translator X while TheodDan was  
produced  by translator Y. That this is so is clear from the very  
different ways in which X and Y approach their respective Semitic  
source texts. The similarities that exist between what X and Y  
produce should therefore be assumed to be indirect rather than direct.
As you recognize, there is a further fact to be noted in the case of  
Daniel, namely, that Semitic Daniel was translated into Greek at  
least twice——alternatively it was translated once and thereafter that  
translation was revised. In any case, we have two standard Greek  
texts of Daniel, namely, the so-called Old Greek (OG) text and the so- 
called Theodotionic text (DanTheod).
Given the above (of which you already be aware) we'd best start with  
the assumption that, in any case, Greek Isaiah and DanTheod are not  
related.

Isaiah 9:6(5) (note that NRSV = LXX in numbering).
You note that Hebrew SAR-SHALOM is not represented in the LXX. While  
technically you are correct, it is questionable that you are  correct  
in fact, since the Greek text features both EIRHNH (peace) and ARXWN  
(ruler). Here is NETS (Moises Silva)
6(5) "because a child was born for us,//a son also given to us,// 
whose sovereignty was upon his shoulder,//and he is named Messenger  
of Great Counsel,//for I will bring peace upon the rulers, peace and  
health to him." But I'll leave exposition to Ken Penner.
DanTheod 9:25
You note here that MESIACH-NAGID is represented not at all in the  
DanOG and only in part in DanTheod. The former is correct——but there  
is more to be said about the OG verse; the latter is not correct  
since DanTheod does not have XRISTOU but XRISTOU hHGOUMENOU. Here is  
NETS (Tim McLay)
DanTheod:"And you shall know and shall understand: from the going  
forth of the word to respond to and to rebuild Ierousalem until an  
anointed leader, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, and  
it will return, and streets and a wall will be built, and the seasons  
will be emptied out."
DanOG: "And you shall understand and will rejoice and will discover  
ordinances to respond,and you will build Ierousalem as a city for the  
Lord."
Ken may want to comment further.
Al

On Dec 20, 2007, at 11:20 AM, David Rollins wrote:

> I hope this is an intelligible question.  Looking at these two
> passages in the LXX I found that the Hebrew - SAR-SHALOM- ( not sure
> how to transliterate that ) - Prince of Peace- in Isaiah 9:6 (5) is
> not translated.  I am puzzled by that - any answers?? Also, in Daniel
> 9:25 the Hebrew - MESIACH-NAGID - The LXX -Dan.TH has only XRISTOU
> AND Dan.OG does not have that part  of the verse. What is an
> explanation for that?
>
> For any of you who are much better at Hebrew than myself another
> question: Is there any real difference between the two Hebrew words
> for "prince" - SAR and NAGIB.  My only resource is Brown-Driver and
> Briggs.  Their listings for each word seem to have a lot of overlap.
> I initially was looking at both passages to see how the LXX
> translated each Hebrew word and found that in both passages the terms
> are left out.  I hope these are not ignorant questions!
>
> David Rollins
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