[B-Greek] The personal pronoun for he, she and it

Dr. Don Wilkins drdwilkins at sbcglobal.net
Fri Feb 2 14:12:31 EST 2007


IMO AUTOS is not really satisfactory as an ordinary 3rd person  
pronoun in the NT, either. It is intensive there as well, though the  
intensity is not always sufficient to affect the translation (a  
subjective choice by the translator), which might lead one to assume  
that AUTOS serves as an ordinary pronoun. While we're on the subject,  
I have sometimes seen people familiar with Greek use the ms pronoun  
"he" with a verb in translating the verb, as if "he" were always  
implied (e.g. "he looses" for LUW). This is often the way vocabulary  
is listed in elementary grammars and some lexicons, out of  
practicality. Now and then someone will even say something like "LUW  
means 'He looses,'" which shows the effect of this practice. I'm not  
suggesting that this is a facet of the gender controversy in  
translation, but I think for the sake of accuracy it would be good  
for instructors and writers to point out that verbs do not inherently  
include a subject; their parsing simply limits the possibilities. It  
might be better to use the infinitive in giving the meanings of  
verbs, as we usually do in English. The mood mismatch (if one can  
call the infinitive a mood/mode) might be a smaller price to pay in  
avoiding confusion.

Don Wilkins

On Feb 2, 2007, at 5:58 AM, George F Somsel wrote:

> That does make a difference.  I will with pleasure retract my  
> judgment that the professor was in error.  Apparently I had missed  
> the detail that this was a classical Greek course.
>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Christopher Shelton <christophershelt at bellsouth.net>; B-Greek  
> <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; Greek Study <greekstudy at nxport.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 7:02:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] The personal pronoun for he, she and it
>
>
> The problem, however, is that Christopher's course is in classical
> Attic, and it's quite true that AUTOS is not appropriate as a simple
> 3rd-person pronoun in classical Attic. EKEINOS may be used, as
> suggested; hOUTOS could also be used, so also could hODE/hHDE/TODE.
> Under the right circumstances the article or relative pronoun could
> be used -- but AUTOS in classical Attic is ordinarily going to be
> intensive.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
>
> On Feb 1, 2007, at 10:47 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>
>> It isn't my greatest wish to criticise some professor who is
>> teaching a course; however, unless you have misunderstood what was
>> said, I must disagree.  AUTOS is the simple 3rd pn while EKEINOS is
>> a demonstrative.  It is the difference between "he ("she" or "it")"
>> and "that one."  As an indication of how frequently it is used,
>> AUTOS, -H, -O appears 273 times in the nominative in the NT while
>> EKEINOS, -H, -O appears 107 times in the NT in the nominative.
>>
>>
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>> _________
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Christopher Shelton <christophershelt at bellsouth.net>
>> To: B-Greek <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; Greek Study
>> <greekstudy at nxport.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2007 10:23:35 PM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] The personal pronoun for he, she and it
>>
>>
>> To One and All--
>>      My professor steered us away from using the personal pronoun for
>> he, she, it (AUTOS) in the nominative case (as a subject).  Instead
>> she
>> advised that we use the demonstrative, EKEINOS.  I am wondering what
>> other alternative might serve as a personal pronoun in place of
>> EKEINOS?  Thank you.
>>
>> -- 
>> Christopher Shelton
>> Fort Lauderdale, Florida, U.S.A.
>> christophershelt at bellsouth.net
>> tel. (954) 463-9624
>
>
>
>
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