[B-Greek] DIA TOU TEICOS: "down the wall"? (2 Cor. 11:33)

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Mon Feb 5 20:15:59 EST 2007


Of course it means to travel "from milepost to milepost", but it seems to take on the sense of "by means of" rather than the conventional sense of "through."  Similarly, one could speak of passing something from one side to the other along the wall or "by means of the wall" rather than actually passing it "through" the wall as through a hole.
 
george
gfsomsel
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Cc: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 8:02:41 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] DIA TOU TEICOS: "down the wall"? (2 Cor. 11:33)


On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:46 PM, George F Somsel wrote:

> ⓐ w. verbs of going DIERXESQAI DIA PANTWN (sc. TOPWN, EpArist 132)  
> go through all the places Ac 9:32; cp. Mt 12:43; Lk 11:24.  
> APELEUSOMAI DI' hUMWN EIS I will go through your city on the way to  
> Ro 15:28; cp. 2 Cor. 1:16. DIABAINEIN Hb 11:29. DIAPOREUESQAI EIA  
> SPORIMWN Lk 6:1. EISERXESQAI DIA THS PULHS (Jos., Ant. 13, 229) Mt  
> 7:13a; T. QURAS J 10:1f; cp. vs. 9.
>
> ** PARERXESQAI DIA T. hODOU pass by along the road Mt 8:28; **

I don't this this means "on the shoulder of the road" or "skirting  
the road" but ON the road (i.e. from one location on the road right  
through to another location on the road) -- right through from  
milepost to milepost. Nor would I suppose that DIA TOU TEICOUS, if  
we're talking about the Great Wall of China, means travel along the  
roadway atop the wall but rather from one side to the other.

>
> Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English  
> lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature.  
> "Based on Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Wr̲terbuch zu den  
> Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der frhchristlichen [sic]  
> Literatur, sixth edition, ed. Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, with  
> Viktor Reichmann and on previous English editions by W.F. Arndt,  
> F.W. Gingrich, and F.W. Danker." (3rd ed.) (223). Chicago:  
> University of Chicago Press.

I was supposing that we all know exactly what BDAG is, but perhaps I  
was mistaken.

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Webb <webb at selftest.net>; B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 7:39:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] DIA TOU TEICOS: "down the wall"? (2 Cor. 11:33)
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2007, at 5:19 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>
>> If you look at BDAG s.v. DIA #1 you will see that it doesn't always
>> signify passing from one side to the other by means of an opening
>> but can also mean such as "along."  Such a transaction DIA TOU
>> TEIXOS would be "along the wall" without the need to chop a hole in
>> it.
>
> I would disagree, and I don't see that BDAG s.v. DIA #1 supports
> "along the wall" nor "down the wall" either; for that I would expect
> PARA TOU TEICOUS or KATA TOU TEICOUS; but DIA with a genitive seems
> to me to require passage from one side or end of something through to
> the other side or end.
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
>> To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 4:52:44 PM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] DIA TOU TEICOS: "down the wall"? (2 Cor. 11:33)
>>
>>
>> Most translators take DIA TOU TEICOS as meaning "through the wall",
>> and
>> associate it with DIA QURIDOS in 2 Cor. 11:33. I'd just like to
>> rule out the
>> possibility that one would say TI CALAW DIA TOU TEICOS if they
>> meant "lower
>> something down the wall".
>>
>> 2 Kgs 20:21 seems to admit that kind of possibility, grisly as it is.
>> Somebody's head is going to get thrown DIA TOU TEICOS to somebody,
>> and it
>> seems possible that it means "thrown down from the wall", rather than
>> "through the wall"-although the latter seems equally possible.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> Webb Mealy
>>
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>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/


 
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