[B-Greek] DIA TOU TEICOS: "down the wall"? (2 Cor. 11:33)
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Feb 5 20:45:47 EST 2007
Sorry. I think that when DIA means "by means of" it takes an accusative.
On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:15 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
> Of course it means to travel "from milepost to milepost", but it
> seems to take on the sense of "by means of" rather than the
> conventional sense of "through." Similarly, one could speak of
> passing something from one side to the other along the wall or "by
> means of the wall" rather than actually passing it "through" the
> wall as through a hole.
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> Cc: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 8:02:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] DIA TOU TEICOS: "down the wall"? (2 Cor. 11:33)
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2007, at 7:46 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>
>> ⓐ w. verbs of going DIERXESQAI DIA PANTWN (sc. TOPWN, EpArist 132)
>> go through all the places Ac 9:32; cp. Mt 12:43; Lk 11:24.
>> APELEUSOMAI DI' hUMWN EIS I will go through your city on the way to
>> Ro 15:28; cp. 2 Cor. 1:16. DIABAINEIN Hb 11:29. DIAPOREUESQAI EIA
>> SPORIMWN Lk 6:1. EISERXESQAI DIA THS PULHS (Jos., Ant. 13, 229) Mt
>> 7:13a; T. QURAS J 10:1f; cp. vs. 9.
>>
>> ** PARERXESQAI DIA T. hODOU pass by along the road Mt 8:28; **
>
> I don't this this means "on the shoulder of the road" or "skirting
> the road" but ON the road (i.e. from one location on the road right
> through to another location on the road) -- right through from
> milepost to milepost. Nor would I suppose that DIA TOU TEICOUS, if
> we're talking about the Great Wall of China, means travel along the
> roadway atop the wall but rather from one side to the other.
>
>>
>> Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English
>> lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature.
>> "Based on Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Wr̲terbuch zu den
>> Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der frhchristlichen [sic]
>> Literatur, sixth edition, ed. Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, with
>> Viktor Reichmann and on previous English editions by W.F. Arndt,
>> F.W. Gingrich, and F.W. Danker." (3rd ed.) (223). Chicago:
>> University of Chicago Press.
>
> I was supposing that we all know exactly what BDAG is, but perhaps I
> was mistaken.
>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
>> To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Webb <webb at selftest.net>; B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 7:39:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] DIA TOU TEICOS: "down the wall"? (2 Cor.
>> 11:33)
>>
>>
>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 5:19 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>>
>>> If you look at BDAG s.v. DIA #1 you will see that it doesn't always
>>> signify passing from one side to the other by means of an opening
>>> but can also mean such as "along." Such a transaction DIA TOU
>>> TEIXOS would be "along the wall" without the need to chop a hole in
>>> it.
>>
>> I would disagree, and I don't see that BDAG s.v. DIA #1 supports
>> "along the wall" nor "down the wall" either; for that I would expect
>> PARA TOU TEICOUS or KATA TOU TEICOUS; but DIA with a genitive seems
>> to me to require passage from one side or end of something through to
>> the other side or end.
>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Webb <webb at selftest.net>
>>> To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 4:52:44 PM
>>> Subject: [B-Greek] DIA TOU TEICOS: "down the wall"? (2 Cor. 11:33)
>>>
>>>
>>> Most translators take DIA TOU TEICOS as meaning "through the wall",
>>> and
>>> associate it with DIA QURIDOS in 2 Cor. 11:33. I'd just like to
>>> rule out the
>>> possibility that one would say TI CALAW DIA TOU TEICOS if they
>>> meant "lower
>>> something down the wall".
>>>
>>> 2 Kgs 20:21 seems to admit that kind of possibility, grisly as it
>>> is.
>>> Somebody's head is going to get thrown DIA TOU TEICOS to somebody,
>>> and it
>>> seems possible that it means "thrown down from the wall", rather
>>> than
>>> "through the wall"-although the latter seems equally possible.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Webb Mealy
>>>
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>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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