[B-Greek] Heb. 1.7: PNEUMATA-FLOGA
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Feb 7 13:15:59 EST 2007
The only way one can maintain that the author of Hebrews understood the text in the way which the NJB renders it
NJB: appointing the winds his messengers and flames of fire his
servants.
NJB: appointing the winds your messengers, flames of fire your servants.
is to not only assume that the author not only knew the Hebrew order and understood the LXX in the Hebraic sense but also that he nevertheless used it as given by the LXX with full knowledge and furthermore that he expected that his readers would likewise be aware of the difference.
I would concur with at least much of what Harold states. The parallelism of the passage indicates a comparison between two (or three) entities
A. 1. Angels = spirits
2. Servants = flames
B. Son = God
If the order is then reversed so that it becomes
A. 1. Spirits = angels
2. Flames = servants
B. Son = God
then the comparison doesn't work nearly so well.
george
gfsomsel
_________
----- Original Message ----
From: Harold Holmyard <hholmyard at ont.com>
To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2007 12:56:43 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Heb. 1.7: PNEUMATA-FLOGA
Dear Iver,
I understand your proposal but have reservations about it for the
following reasons.
> In the context of Hebrews 1, the theme is to pull down the status of the angels from beings up there
> with God in Heaven that some Jews were tempted to worship to beings that are simply God's messengers
> and servants on this earth.
HH: Actually, the theme of Hebrews 1 is not to pull down the status of
angels. The theme is to exalt Christ, particularly to exalt him as even
higher than the angels, as high as they are. You have to establish your
claim that the context indicates the purpose is to tear down the glory
of angels.
> As servants they are at the same level as winds and lightning that God
> also uses as his servants and messengers, even though inanimate. No Jew would worship winds and
> lightning, so neither should they worship the angels.
HH: The author of Hebrews says nothing about worshiping angels, does he?
And if the message were as you say, God would not outrightly say, "Since
I use winds as messengers, angels, who are my messengers, aren't so
special." The writer of Hebrews would require the reader to draw this
conclusion.
HH: The writer of Hebrews says that the verse in Ps 104 is about angelic
messengers. If it is about winds as messengers, it is not really about
angels, even with a wordplay. He says that God is saying something about
angels in the verse. God would not be saying much about angels in such a
quote from Psalm 104 as you propose, except that both angels and winds
serve the function of being messengers.
Heb. 1:7 Of the angels/messengers he says,
He makes the winds his angels/messengers winds,
and flames of fire his servants.
HH: If the verse really reads, "He makes the winds his messengers," then
God said nothing directly about angelic messengers at this place, and
the words would seem like poor logic or the punchline of a bad joke.
Furthermore, the Messiah Jesus is called a Servant in Isaiah, Zechariah,
and the NT (Matt 12:18; Acts 3:13, 26 cf. Zech 3:8). Does the fact that
God makes flames of fire his servants mean that we should not worship
Christ because he is also God's servant?
HH: A significant wordplay could be that the angels are not only winds
but spirits. The writer of Hebrews calls the angels PNEUMATA in Heb 1:7,
and he calls them PNEUMATA again in Heb 1:14. While the first occurrence
of PNEUMATA signifies "winds," the second signifies "spirits." The
author would take the word in Heb 1:7 to a higher level in 1:14.
> But the angels should worship the Son (Heb
> 1:6). The angels should not be considered to be at the same level as Jesus.
HH: Sure, but does tearing down the angels serve the author's purpose?
The higher the angels are, the more significant is the fact that they
are to worship Christ (Heb 1:6). The higher they are, the higher Christ is.
> Unfortunately for the
> translator, English uses different words for "angel" and "messenger" whereas Hebrew and Greek do
> not, and the author of Hebrews plays on the double sense of AGGELOS.
>
HH: The fact is that Jesus Christ himself was a messenger (Heb 1:1-2).
God sent him with the gospel of the kingdom. Most commentators I have
studied equate the Lord Jesus with the "messenger of the covenant" (or
"angel of the covenant") in Mal 3:1:
Mal. 3:1 See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before
me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the
messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come, says the LORD
Almighty.
Mal. 3:2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he
appears? For he will be like a refiners fire or a launderers soap. So
being a messenger says nothing about one's intrinsic dignity. Of course
winds are not on the same level of angels.
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
---
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