[B-Greek] partitive genitive as subject/object

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Feb 9 21:16:02 EST 2007


On Feb 9, 2007, at 7:54 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:

>
> On Feb 9, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2007, at 2:14 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>>
>>> N.Turner (Syntax p208-209) has a useful discussion of AP0/EK with
>>> genitive and without a noun functioning as a subject or object of  
>>> the
>>> verb.  Turner gives a lot of examples from NT and LXX. He also
>>> mentions it in his book on Style (pps. 15, 46, 70, 137, 151f) where
>>> he attributes it to semitic influence.
>>>
>>> In John 6:11 we see EK TWN OYARIWN functioning as an entire clause:
>>>
>>> JOHN 6:11 ELABEN OUN TOUS ARTOUS hO IHSOUS KAI EUCARISTHSAS DIEDWKEN
>>> TOIS ANAKEIMENOIS hOMOIWS KAI EK TWN OYARIWN hOSON HQELON.
>>
>> Isn't this a bit different? Here EK TWN OYARIWN must surely depend
>> upon hOSON's implicit antecedent TOSOUTON?
>
> Carl,
>
> Westcott (1John p153) cites Jn 1:16 & Jn 6:11 as examples that
> illustrate the use of EK in 1JN 4:13. Yes it is different which is
> why I took an interest in it. Oun was marveling over the missing
> direct object in 1JN 4:13 but here we have more than just a missing
> object, we have a clause introduced by hOMOIWS KAI which is made of
> nothing but EK TWN OYARIWN. There is more than one way to parse this
> but I would see hOSON HQELON as adverbial to DIEDWKE TOIS  
> ANAKEIMENOIS.
>
> I was politely reminded off list that N.Turner is considered by some
> to be "over the top" when it comes to semitic influence on NT greek.
> I was well aware of this but evidence in H.Smyth and G.Cooper for pre-
> biblical use of the partitive genitive as a subject/object with the
> finite verb is scanty to say the least. Turner may be wrong 90% time
> on semitic influence but that does not mean that we should ignore the
> other 10%.

I have no problem with the notion of partitives as subject or object  
of a verb; we see them in Homer; and I don't think there's anything  
particularly Semitic about it: we see it in French: "Des amis sont  
venus avec moi; ... les pêches dont j'ai mangé hier soir ..." But it  
seems to me that the structure of the sentence in John 6:11 is highly  
elliptical. I'd formulate it thus
ELABEN OUN TOUS ARTOUS hO IHSOUS KAI EUCARISTHSAS DIEDWKEN TOIS  
ANAKEIMENOIS, hOMOIWS KAI EK TWN OYARIWN (ELABEN TOSOUTON) hOSON  
HQELON (KAI EUCARISTHSAS DIEDWKEN TOIS ANAKEIMENOIS).
I just think that in this instance there's an implicit quantitative  
pronoun upon which EK TWN OYARIWN hangs. Certainly it's a partitive  
phrase in any case.


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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