[B-Greek] Eph 2:2 TOU PNEUMATOS (again)

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Feb 16 14:39:30 EST 2007


It is ENERGOUNTOS, isn't it? Genitive sg., not Accusative pl. (and  
not Nominative sg. MG)?

ENERGOUNTOS in agreement with TOU PNEUMATOS because in fact  
qualifying TOU PNEUMATOS: TOU PNEUMATOS TOU NUN ENERGOUNTOS

And its THS EXOUSIAS TOU AEROS

And I really don't understand the position of EN TOIS hUIOIS THS  
APEIQEIAS.
The structural layout is confused, the more so owing to the  
mistranscription.

On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Bryant J. Williams III wrote:

> Dear Elizabeth,
>
> My purpose in stacking the verse as I did was to highlight the  
> relationship
> between the preposition KATA + ACCUSATIVE + GENITIVE. As you said  
> the line
> wrapping probably caused a problem/error.
>
> Let's try again.
>
> KATA TON AIWNA               TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU,
> KATA TON ARCONTA        TOU EXOUSIAS TOU AEROS,
>                                                  TOU PNEUMATOS TOU NUN
> ENERGOUNTAS
> EN TOIS hUIOIS THS APEIQEIAS.
>
> This is what Wallace may be getting at, that it is not Genitive of
> Apposition since TOU PNEUMATOS is a personal noun under the head  
> noun TON
> ARCONTA. I do not know if that is correct. It seems that TON ARCONTA
> requires that there be some description of who TON ARCONTA is. If  
> Wallace is
> correct, then TOU EXOUSIAS and TOU PNEUMATOS describe NOT TON  
> ARCONTA. I
> will correct myself, then, since KATA TON AIWNA = KATA TON ARCONTA  
> and TOU
> EXOUSIAS TOU AEROS = TON PNEUMATOS TOU NUN ENERGOUNTAS.
>
> Thus, TON ARCONTA (the ruler, here in a spiritual aspect instead of  
> human)
> is attributed with the TOU EXOUSIAS (power/authority) TOU AEROS (in  
> the air;
> thus, not attributing to him a earthly/human power/authority) and  
> with TOU
> PNEUMATOS [the spirit (not Spirit)] TOU NUN ENERGOUNTAS (which now
> works/energizes) EN TOIS hUIOIS THS APEIQEIAS (in the sons/children of
> disobedience/unfaithfulness). All of this is stating how we  
> Gentiles once
> walked (EN hAIS POTE PERIEPATHSATE) which completes the thought of  
> 2:1, KAI
> hUMAS ONTAS NEKROS TOIS PARAPTWMASIN KAI TAIS hAMARTIAS hUMWN. We  
> were the
> WALKING DEAD!
>
> En Xristwi,
>
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
> To: "greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:09 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Eph 2:2 TOU PNEUMATOS (again)
>
>
>> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III wrote:
>>
>> [Note: I tried to clean up the line wrapping but may have  error.
>> E.Kline]
>>
>> If laid out correctly, it appears that it is Genitive of Apposition.
>> EN hAIS POTE PERIEPATHSATE
>>     KATA TON AIWNA    TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU,
>>     KATA TON ARCONTA  TOU EXOUSIAS TOU AEROS,
>>                       TOU PNEUMATOS TOU NUN ENERGOUNTAS
>>   EN TOIS hUIOISTHS APEIQEIAS (attributive genitive, ATR, p. 497)
>>
>> Clearly KATA TON AIWNA TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU = KATA TON ARCONTA TOU
>> EXOUSIAS TOU
>> AEROS - TOU PNEUMATOS TOU NUN ENERGOUNTAS.
>>
>> [end of quote]
>>
>> I have a problem with stacking TOU PNEUMATOS under TOU EXOUSIAS since
>> the relationship between TON ARCONTA and TOU EXOUSIAS seems quite
>> different from the relationship between TON ARCONTA and TOU  
>> PNEUMATOS.
>>
>> EPH. 2:2 EN hAIS POTE PERIEPATHSATE KATA TON AIWNA TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU,
>> KATA TON ARCONTA THS EXOUSIAS TOU AEROS, TOU PNEUMATOS TOU NUN
>> ENERGOUNTOS EN TOIS hUIOIS THS APEIQEIAS:
>>
>> Is TOU PNEUMATOS co-referential with TON ARCONTA? If it is, then it
>> does not fill the same slot as THS EXOUSIAS.
>>
>>
>>
>> I spent some hours over the last two days in the grammars (all of
>> them) reading about the genitive. It seems that what we have is a
>> complex system of types and sub-types used to define the behaviour of
>> the genitive case, and some authors (one or two) define very specific
>> rules concerning very specific subtypes which are essentially beyond
>> testing because it is nearly impossible to clearly deliniate a set of
>> examples which are beyond all dispute memebers of the subtype for
>> which these rules are supposed to be valid. In other words, the whole
>> thing is like a house of cards.  This is just an aside.
>>
>> Elizabeth Kline
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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