[B-Greek] SOFIA SIRAX 19:4 - Hearts and Minds

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Sun Jul 29 21:03:01 EDT 2007


On Jul 29, 2007, at 7:36 PM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:

>
> On Jul 29, 2007, at 6:37 PM, Carl Thomas wrote:
>
>> I have two questions. 1. What is a critical edition?
>
> That's a text compiled from what are deemed the best manuscript  
> witnesses and that includes a critical apparatus of note indicating  
> all major significant variants from the text that is set forth by  
> the editors of the edition. Probably a better definition can be  
> given, but that's essentially what it is.
If it helps, in general parlance a critical edition is distinguished  
from a diplomatic edition, that is, an edition based on a single  
manuscript, to which all other manuscripts are collated. Thus in  
Septuagint Studies the Larger Cambridge Septuagint  is a diplomatic  
edition, since its base text is MS Vaticanus (IV cent.), with  
readings from other manuscript in the apparatus,  in distinction from  
the Göttingen Septuagint, which is a critical edition, since its base  
text is critically reconstructed piecemeal from all available  
evidence. The remaining evidence is then given in apparatus. For more  
on this see http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/ioscs/editions.html
Al
>
>> 2.When I want to
>> Reply to a post on this list, should I click Reply or Reply All?
>
> Use "reply all" if you want your response to go to the B-Greek list  
> in general as well as to the original sender of the message to  
> which you are responding. If you click simply "reply," your  
> response will go only to the original sender.
>
> That's the way B-Greek is set up; it's not the way other lists are  
> necessarily set up, and I don't doubt that some would prefer that  
> our set-up were the other way around. But this is our rule: "Reply  
> all" goes to the whole list; "Reply" goes only to the original  
> sender of the post to which you are responding.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Co-Chair, B-Greek
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Albert Pietersma wrote:
>>> Since the question raised was about the Greek text of Sirach, it is
>>> perhaps worth noting that  there is a critical edition  in the
>>> Göttingen Septuagint: Joseph Ziegler (Septuaginta: Vetus  
>>> Testamentum
>>> Graecum Auctoritate Academiae Litterarum Gottingensiseditum XII, 2:
>>> Sapientia Iesu Filii Sirach [Göttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht,
>>> 1965]). For the line in question, Ziegler = Rahlfs, though that is
>>> not always the case. The apparatus notes no significant variants.
>>> Al
>>> On Jul 29, 2007, at 2:43 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jul 29, 2007, at 2:16 AM, kathleen.taylor at dpag.ox.ac.uk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thirdly, is it stretching it too far to read into the use of
>>>>> καρδίᾳ
>>>>> [KARDIAi], rather than, say, some form of FRONIS or NOOS, a
>>>>> stronger, more
>>>>> emotional or personally-important relationship between the  
>>>>> believer
>>>>> and
>>>>> the belief-object ('trust' rather than mere 'belief')?
>>>>>
>>>> In regard to this it might (??) be worth taking a look at the  
>>>> textual
>>>> notes in the Anchor Bible [AB]. The text of Ben Sira is generally
>>>> difficult (see AB pps 46-62) and the text for 19:1-4 is uncertain.
>>>> According to P.W. Skehan (AB p289) the Peshitta (SYR) lacks 19:3 so
>>>> that 19:2 is joined to 19:4a. This plus a change of wording in  
>>>> 19:4b
>>>> found in two Greek manuscripts [Greek text not cited in AB!!] form
>>>> the basis for Skehan's reconstruction and translation.
>>>>
>>>> 19:2 Wine and women make the mind giddy,
>>>> and the companion of prostitutes becomes reckless.
>>>> 19:4 He who lightly trusts [in them] has no sense,
>>>> and he who strays [after them] sins against his own life.
>>>>
>>>> Note that there is on textual basis for [in them] and I suspect  
>>>> there
>>>> isn't any for [after them] but I cannot be sure.
>>>>
>>>> Skehan attempts to produce discourse cohesion where none exists.
>>>> There isn't any connection between 19:4 and what follows so  
>>>> based on
>>>> the Peshitta and an alternate reading in two Greek mss. of 19:4b
>>>> which he does not name and cites only in English (bad!) "the one  
>>>> who
>>>> is incontinent" for "he who strays" he arrives at a reconstruction
>>>> which looks to me like it is pertinent to your question "...
>>>> relationship between the believer and the belief-object".
>>>>
>>>> This is drifting away from discussion of the Greek text so I will
>>>> cease and desist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth Kline
>>>>
>>>> [AB] Wisdom of Ben Sira (Anchor Bible)
>>>> Alexander A. Di Lella; Editor-Patrick W. Skehan, 1987
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>>>> B-Greek mailing list
>>>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Carl Thomas
>> Ashland, Montana 59003
>> United States of America
>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>> B-Greek mailing list
>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek




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