[B-Greek] EI DE CWRIS ESTE PAIDEIAS hHS METOCOI GEGONASIN PANTES

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Wed Jun 6 15:33:43 EDT 2007


Dear Webb,

"If you are without discipline which all children share, then you are
illegitimate (children)."

The context is that a child who is disciplined by his father is a legitimate
child; for the father will discipline is own child, not one who is not his.
By inference, if I am being disciplined by the Father, then I am His child;
I am not illegitimate.

Regarding Lattimore's translation of GEGONASIN. He is correct since the
Perfect Participle is following ESTE. I find the NIV at this point to
mistranslate GEGONASIN as "undergoes."

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Webb" <webb at selftest.net>
To: "'B-Greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 10:22 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] EI DE CWRIS ESTE PAIDEIAS hHS METOCOI GEGONASIN PANTES


> EI DE CWRIS ESTE PAIDEIAS hHS METOCOI GEGONASIN PANTES, ARA NOQOI...ESTE
> (Heb. 12:8)
>
>
>
> RSV has "If you do not have the discipline in which all children share,
then
> you are illegitimate"
>
> NIV has "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline),
> then you are illegitimate children"
>
> Lattimore has, "If you go without the discipline which all are born to
> share, you are bastards".
>
>
>
> Now, ignoring Lattimore's overinterpretation of GEGONASIN (unless you
think
> he's correct, in which case speak up), I'm interested in Lattimore's
> insertion of the hint that the person is involved the fact that they are
> remaining undisciplined: "If you go without discipline". Before I
consulted
> his translation, I had been mulling over this rendering:
>
>
>
> And if you're above (fn: Lit. "apart from") the discipline that everybody
> takes part in, then you're illegitimate children.
>
>
>
> I am very tempted to read EI DE CWRIS ESTE PAIDEIAS as meaning "And if you
> hold yourself aloof from discipline". The author's argument obviously
seems
> to resonate with that idea, but is it a reasonable interpretation of the
> words themselves?
>
>
>
> Webb Mealy
>
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