[B-Greek] Luke 4:7
Jonathan Robie
jwrobie at mindspring.com
Thu Jun 14 11:32:33 EDT 2007
Iver Larsen wrote:
>> I checked S.H. Levinsohn (Discourse Features NTG, pp.16-17,37-67) and
>> he affirms that the initial slot may be used for focus. In his
>> glossary focus is defined as that part of an utterance which makes
>> the most important change in the hearer's mental representation. But
>> the final slot may also be used for focus.
>>
>
> Iver: That is one of the questionable claims in Levinsohn's analysis, and based on my own research
> and that of others I am pretty sure it is mistaken. I have studied all the references Levinsohn
> claims to exhibit final focus, and in each case an alternative and better analysis is possible. The
> final slot can be used for focus in English, but not in Greek, because of the extremely flexible
> word order in Greek as compared to English. If both initial and final order could be used for focus
> in Greek, the system would break down, because the writer would not be able to decide the word order
> choice and the reader would be confused in trying to analyze the text.
>
Iver - could you post your analysis somewhere in a document? It's really
hard for me to evaluate statements like "in each case an alternative and
better analysis is possible" without seeing the analysis you propose for
each case.
Also, I think your reasoning is somewhat circular. You propose a model
in which only initial order can be used for focus, then say that using
final order for emphasis doesn't work because speakers of New Testament
Greek understand things according to your model. There are others on
this list who do not yet accept your model, so it would be helpful if
you posted a document that contains the analysis you allude to. I doubt
that email is the best channel for that, because a more complete
overview is needed.
>> LUKE 4:7 SU OUN EAN PROSKUNHSHiS ENWPION EMOU, ESTAI SOU PASA.
>>
>> I would say that SU is LUKE 4:7 while acquiring some added attention
>> in the initial slot, is not the focus of the utterance. I place the
>> focus of the utterance at the end, ESTAI SOU PASA. There is some
>> confusion at this point in my mind about clause level focus and
>> utterance focus. SU might be in focus for the protasis but not for
>> the utterance.
>>
>
> Carl: .... I'm glad that Elizabeth has called attention to ESTAI SOU PASA in
> this utterance of Satan; here's another instance where I have to say
> that, although the entire clause is powerful, the concluding PASA is
> especially emphatic -- in FINAL position. And wouldn't we have to
> say that PASA here is predicative (the implicit subject being
> EXOUSIA)? Something like, "It (the authority) will be yours --
> entirely."
>
> Iver: Why is PASA considered to be emphatic? I can see no pragmatic or grammatical reason for it to
> be. Greek word order emphasis is much simpler. In the clause ESTAI SOU PASA, the major focus is on
> ESTAI, because it appears first, and the least focus is on PASA. ESTAI in first position does not
> mean just "it/he will be", but rather "it/he will indeed be". Focus is on the fact that it will
> indeed happen, it will definitely come into existence. This is the focus of the promise by Satan in
> this clause.
>
Iver - when you say "Greek word order emphasis is so much simpler", I
think you mean that you propose a simpler model of emphasis than what
Steve and Carl propose. Both Steve and Carl have explained their models,
and how they understand emphasis in their models. Clearly, your model
gives a different result. But in the above paragraph, you give no clear
reason to believe that your model is more true than the ones proposed by
Carl or Steve, you simply assert emphatically that your model is the way
the Greek language works. It's not clear to me that the most emphatic
statement is always the most true.
You've suggested in another email that there is room for a good Master's
thesis that would demonstrate that your model is true. I've now read two
papers that Steve wrote, and find them convincing, but I do not know if
they are available on the Web. Perhaps you could ask him for a copy of
these same papers and write something along similar lines that more
clearly shows your model to be true.
Jonathan
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