[B-Greek] Luke 5:1 EN TWi + infinitive

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Jun 27 15:11:50 EDT 2007


Yet note how Burton handles it
 
Luke 5:1; ἐγένετο δὲ ἐν τῷ τὸν ὄχλον ἐπικεῖσθαι αὐτῷ καὶ ἀκούειν τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν ἑστὼς παρὰ τὴν λίμνην Γεννησαρέτ, now it came to pass, while the multitude pressed upon him and heard the word of God, that he was standing by the lake of Gennesaret.
Burton, E. D. W. (1898). Syntax of the moods and tenses in New Testament Greek (3rd ed.) (143). Edinburg: T. & T. Clark.

 
george
gfsomsel
 
Therefore, O faithful Christian, search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.
 
- Jan Hus
_________



----- Original Message ----
From: Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:57:07 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Luke 5:1 EN TWi + infinitive


Carl,

I agree that EN TWi TON OCLON EPIKEISQAI AUTWi KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON  
TOU QEOU is functioning as a circumstantial clause. The question is  
about the internal structure within the circumstantial clause. Your  
proposal is both plausible and perhaps the most satisfactory way to  
read this text. However, there are several reasons to at least  
consider another option.

The majority text reads TOU AKOUEIN for KAI AKOUEIN. How do we  
explain the MT reading? Did the replacement of KAI by TOU arise from  
a desire to remove ambiguity in the syntax? Does TOU AKOUEIN remove  
ambiguity?

Why do the RSV, NRSV, NET bible, TEV all render KAI/TOU AKOUEIN TON  
LOGON TOU QEOU "to hear [listen to TEV] the word of God." Did Bruce  
Metzger and others like him choose to follow the majority text at  
this point? See also Louw & Nida 19.43 "while the people pushed their  
way to him to listen to the word of God" Lk 5:1.

Without finding any explicit discussion of the KAI/TOU AKOUEIN in Lk  
5:1 one can only speculate about why the translation committees for  
the RSV/NRSV used "to hear the word of God" for KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON  
TOU QEOU. This is just another example of how reverse engeineering of  
an English translation is a slippery path.

Carl wrote:
>  It seems to me that the KAI consecutive clause here is KAI AUTOS  
> HN hESTWS PARA THN LIMNHN. This is a pretty standard construction  
> in Luke and Acts (BDAG s.v. GINOMAI 4.f).

Yes this is a standard pattern in Luke-Acts.

Funk 0880. Consecutive clauses denote the result (intended or actual)  
of the action indicated by the verb in the main clause.

Did Luke intended us to understand that Jesus was being pushed back  
into the lake by the crowd so that standing by the lake was a result  
of the pressure from the crowd?


Elizabeth Kline



On Jun 27, 2007, at 4:10 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:

> On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:05 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>
>> The use of KAI to introduce final/consecutive clauses is treated in
>> the standard grammars. The most lucid is Zerwick:1963 #455gamma who
>> cites Lk5:1 as an example. It really doesn't matter if we accept the
>> suggestion that this reflects the usage of the Hebrew VAV (WAW) or a
>> pattern borrowed from the LXX. If you want to think of this as
>> generic Hellenistic Greek, showing examples from papyri, that is  
>> fine.
>>
>> EGENETO DE EN TWi
>> TON OCLON EPIKEISQAI AUTWi
>> KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON TOU QEOU
>> KAI AUTOS HN hESTWS PARA THN LIMNHN GENNHSARET,
>> KAI EIDEN DUO PLOIA hESTWTA PARA THN LIMNHN
>> hOI DE ALIEIS AP' AUTWN APOBANTES
>> EPLUNON TA DIKTUA
>>
>> A verb of motion EPIKEISQAI is often followed by a purpose/results
>> clause. This semantic progression is common enough that it creates
>> what might be called a constraint on how we read KAI AKOUEIN TON
>> LOGON TOU QEOU. In other words we expect a volitional action to be  
>> goal
>> driven and when the KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON TOU QEOU follows it answers
>> this expectation.
>
> I'm not sure I'd call EPIKEISQAI in this instance a verb of motion  
> (I take it that the sense here is "crowd closely" -- I gather that  
> the sense here is pretty much the same as in Mark 4:1 ... KAI  
> SUNAGETAI PROS AUTON OCLOS PLEISTOS; BDAG offers quite a range of  
> meanings for EPIKEIMAI -- at any rate it seems to me that the usage  
> here is a far cry from something like EDRAMON APAGGEILAI in  
> Matthew's account of the women at the tomb in 28:8 KAI APELQOUSAI  
> TACU APO TOU MNHMEIOU META FOBOU KAI CARAS MEGALHS EDRAMON  
> APAGGEILAI TOIS MAQHTAIS AUTOU.).
>
>  It seems to me that the KAI consecutive clause here is KAI AUTOS  
> HN hESTWS PARA THN LIMNHN. This is a pretty standard construction  
> in Luke and Acts (BDAG s.v. GINOMAI 4.f). I'd see the structure  
> here as
>
> EGENETO DE ... KAI AUTOS HN hESTWS PARA THN LIMNHN ...
>
> with EN TWi TON OCLON EPIKEISQAI AUTWi KAI AKOUEIN TON LOGON TOU  
> QEOU as the equivalent of a circumstantial clause indicating the  
> circumstances surrounding the occaasion set forth in the narrative  
> that follows. It seems to me that the KAI preceding AKOUEIN is  
> simply a conjunction linking the two infinitive phrases functioning  
> as predicates to TON OCLON:
>
> "On one occasion as the throng crowding him closely and was  
> listening to God's word, he was standing beside Lake Gennesaret and  
> saw ... "
>






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