[B-Greek] John 15:7 - Middle/Passive imperatives?

Carl W.Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri May 11 10:20:38 EDT 2007


On May 11, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:

> No, the subjunctive on QELHTE is a consequence of the indefinite
> character of the wish:
>
> hO EAN QELHTE = "whatever you wish"
>
> The indicative, hO QELETE = "what you want."
>
> But in this sort of construction we really expect that indefinite
> formulation,
> hO EAN QELHTE ...

I forgot to comment on your second question:

I would say that the middle voice is appropriate to a petition
either for oneself or for each other as a group of individuals.
The active AITHSON wouldn't indicate personal interest in
the outcome, even if there is one.

>
> On May 11, 2007, at 8:08 AM, Pete Harwood wrote:
>
>>
>> Carl,
>>
>> Thanks for the swift reply!
>>
>> As I suspected, passive makes no sense.
>>
>> But does the middle 'make certain' the subjunctive QELHTE? Or is that
>> sunjunctive because
>> of the previous condition: EAN MEINHTE EN EMOI KAI TA hRHMATA MOU
>> EN hUMIN
>> MEINHi?
>>
>> Why doesn't John use an Active instead of a Middle? What would the
>> difference in meaning be?
>>
>> Pete.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Carl W. Conrad [mailto:cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu]
>> Sent: 11 May 2007 11:54
>> To: Pete Harwood
>> Cc: B-Greek
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 15:7 - Middle/Passive imperatives?
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 11, 2007, at 7:43 AM, Pete Harwood wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Sorry to keep asking questions but I'm studying by myself
>>> and don't have a tutor to ask!
>>>
>>> John 15:7 reads:
>>>
>>> EAN MEINHTE EN EMOI KAI TA hRHMATA MOU EN hUMIN MEINHi, hO EAN  
>>> QELHTE
>>> AITHSASQE, KAI GENHSETAI hUMIN.
>>>
>>> In Mounces Graded Reader he asks:
>>>
>>> Is AITHSASQE middle or passive? Bibleworks states it is middle. The
>>> question then is, what is the significance of its voice?
>>
>> It think the question is directed to the reader; of course it's
>> middle in form
>> and it certainly isn't passive in meaning.
>>
>>>
>>> In ESNT, Wallace states:
>>>
>>> "But in general, in the middle voice the subject performs or
>>> experiences the
>>> action expressed by the verb in such a way that emphasizes the
>>> subject’s
>>> participation. It may be said that the subject acts “with a vested
>>> interest."
>>>
>>> In this case, is the subject the person who asks? And the middle
>>> voice just
>>> emphasises that
>>> they perform it 'with a vested interest'? Is it to 'make certain'  
>>> the
>>> subjunctive QELHTE, or does
>>> that link back into the previous condition?
>>
>> Yes, the subject is the person asking; a simple English version
>> would be "Put your request(s)."
>>
>>> If it was passive, would it translate... 'be asked for whatever you
>>> want'?
>>> Which doesn't make much sense!
>>
>> Yes, and no, it doesn't make a bit of sense.
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
>> cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>>
>>
>>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/





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