[B-Greek] Re. PLEQW + EN + dative
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Nov 9 06:12:32 EST 2007
On Nov 8, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Paul F. Evans wrote:
> Elizabeth,
>
> I was rather hoping to see if PLEQW had any examples of the dative of
> content with or without EN. However, I have since discovered it
> does not.
> PLEROW seems to be the only NT example of a cognate with EN + dative
> (Eph
> 5:18), and this seems to indicate means.
>
> But what about outside of the NT? BADG doesn't help because there
> appears
> to be no entry for PLEQW. My original question was about the web-
> site, which
> I have long forgotten about that allows some sort of search for
> examples of
> certain constructions.
>
> In any event, I think that searching for the dative of content is a
> non-starter. The problem I have is that Eph 5:18 does not seem to
> primarily
> indicate content. Arguments from context that Paul is referring to
> the
> "fullness of God" seem weak to me. Verse 19 shows the results of the
> filling. Nothing immediately before that seems to provide content
> either.
>
> I was wondering if any examples of EN + dative could shed some
> additional
> light how it is used here. I would be open to any suggestions
> whereby a
> relatively uninitiated student could obtain access to examples of EN +
> dative in similar constructions outside of the NT, to see if any
> might imply
> both means and content simultaneously.
The verb you're talking about is not PLEQW but PLHQW. Here's part of
the entry in LSJ:
πλήθ-ω (PLHQW), poet. pf. (in pres. sense) πέπληθα
(PEPLHQA) Pherecr.29, Herod.7.84, Theoc.22. 38, etc.: plpf.
ἐπεπλήθει (EPEPLHQEI) A.R.3.271:—
intr. form of πίμπλημι (PIMPLHMI), mostly in pres. part., to
be full, πλήθει ..νεκύων ἐρατεινὰ
ῥέεθρα (PLHQEI ... NEKUWN ERATEINA hREEQRA) Il.21.218;
ναῦς ..ἀνδρῶν πληθούσας (NAUS ... ANDRWN
PLHQOUSAS Simon.142.7; θάλασσα ..ναυαγίων
πλήθουσα καὶ φόνου (QALASSA ... NAUAGIWN PLHQOUSA
KAI FONOU) A.Pers.420, cf. 272; χεῖρας κρεῶν
πλήθοντες having them full of .., (CEIRAS KREWN PLHQONTES)
Id.Ag.1220; τὸ στεγύλλιον πέπληθε καλῶν
ἔργων (TO STEGULLION PEPLHQE KALWN ERGWN) Herod. l. c.: later c.
dat., κρήνην ..ὕδατι πεπληθυῖαν (KRHNHN ...
hUDATI PEPLHQUIAN) Theoc. l. c.; δόνακι πλήθοντα
λιπὼν ῥόον (DONAKI PLHQONTA LIPWN hROON) Call.Fr.166, cf.
AP6.63 (Damoch.); πεπληθότα λύθρῳ (PEPLHQOTA LUQRWi)
Maiist.25; but Ἄναυρος ὄμβρῳ χειμερίῳ
πλήθων (ANAUROS OMBRWi CEIMERIWi PLHQWN) swollen with winter's
rain, ὄμβρῳ (OMBRWi) being dat. of cause ...
What that shows is a genitive complement of PLHQW in the earlier
literature, a dative in later texts. Certainly EN with dative is
common in the GNT in the instrumental sense (with/by means of).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth
> Kline
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:09 PM
> To: greek B-Greek
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Re. PLEQW + EN + dative
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:41 AM, Paul F. Evans wrote:
>
>> In looking at EN, Wallace makes the comment in connection
>> with Eph 5:18, that there are few if no occurrences of EN + dative,
>> in
>> connection with PLEROW, where the dative substantive indicates
>> content.
>> Content is usually indicated by the genitive. No porblemo!
>
>
> Wallace GGBB p375 in a lengthly and nuanced discussion of EN + Dative
> is paraphrasing from Abbott ICC p161. The way the question is framed
> by Abbott isn't very helpful. We should be looking first at the
> dative case to see if the case alone is ever used to indicate
> content. See Lk 2:40 (text?), Rom 1:29 and 2Cor 7:4. Then we should
> look at EN + dative to see if that construction is ever used to
> indicate content. After clearing those questions then perhaps we
> might ask a question about which verbs ... but I think the verb
> question can be dropped in this case because the second question
> fails.
>
>>
>> However, in trying to determine instances where EN + dative might
>> indicated
>> content ...
>
> Stop there, that is the question you want to answer.
>
> The little research I did on this question in Smyth, G.Cooper and BDF
> came up negative.
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
> BTW, the context in Eph. 5:18 doesn't suggest content:
>
> EPH. 5:18 KAI MH MEQUSKESQE OINWi, EN hWi ESTIN ASWTIA, ALLA
> PLHROUSQE EN PNEUMATI,
>
> I would take the dative OINWi as means or instrument for MEQUSKESQE.
> Content isn't suggested by OINWi.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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