[B-Greek] UBS Reader's Edition GNT

Bert de Haan dehaanaf at gmail.com
Sat Nov 24 08:58:22 EST 2007


I see now that I misunderstood you.  I certainly don't fit the
description you gave of someone who uses  the
 ["Reader's Edition GNT" as a Greek NT for people who (a)...]
 but I do use a book much like the Reader's Edition GNT. That is why I
took your comments to refer to my use of  aids like this.  For
learning Greek, I can't say that I have out grown the interlinear, I
have never really been able to use it for that.  However, "Refresh
your Greek" is a great help for me.  Someday the time will come when I
out grow it. I am looking forward to that, but I intend to enjoy the
time in between as well.
My oversensitivity to, and  misunderstanding of your comments no doubt
has to do with the disillusionment I felt when I tried to follow the
advice of you, Dr. Buth and others; In addition to times of reading
with the lexicon and grammar beside me, I also tried to read sections
without any aids at all and got totally lost in a jumble of words of
which I did not understand enough to form sentences. Most times I find
it impossible to deduce the meaning of a word if it is next to two or
three other words I don't understand.  When I had to learn English, I
started by reading books etc with a dictionary beside.  Once someone
gets to the point when he can understand, let's say, 85% of the
sentences without having to look up something, it makes sense to me
that he can read the other 15% as well and have a pretty good idea
what they mean.  I am not at that level yet.
Just because this advise didn't seem to work for me does not mean that
I will disregard other advise;  I just bought "The Apostolic Fathers:
Greek Texts And English Translations"

Bert de Haan.

On Nov 24, 2007 6:32 AM, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 23, 2007, at 10:59 PM, Bert de Haan wrote:
>
> > Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote on
> > Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:02 -0500:
> >
> >>> I'd have to say that I think an interlinear would be more
> >>> immediately useful for the person who can't really read NT Greek or
> >>> cope with a real lexicon.
> >
> > I am assuming that this is an overreaction.  If not, then I don't
> > understand you.  I have a interlinear but never use it anymore.
>
> I really don't think I've said anything different about interlinears
> on other occasions. You are citing the final sentence of a paragraph
> intended to discourage use of the "Reader's Edition GNT." In the
> fuller context, what I said about interlinears is that they are better
> than the "Reader's Edition" for the sort of person who thinks they'd
> find the "Reader's Edition" useful. Here's that full paragraph:
>
> "It would appear that we are defining "Reader's Edition GNT" as a
> Greek NT for people who (a) really can't read NT Greek, i.e. recognize
> at sight the inflected forms of verbs, nouns, adjectives, and adverbs,
> and (b) can't cope with a lexicon that lays out the full range of
> potential meanings of Greek words but must rely instead upon someone
> else's selection from a short list of glosses in what is just about
> the weakest of all lexical aids available for study of the GNT, and
> (c) doesn't need a grammar, because it is assumed that the single-word
> glosses and parsing of words is sufficient to yield the literal
> meaning of the Greek text. I suppose there's something satisfying
> about the lack of any critical apparatus too: it relieves the reader
> from the uncomfortable notion that the Greek text he or she is looking
> at is something other than an editorial composite of manuscript
> evidence. I'd have to say that I think an interlinear would be more
> immediately useful for the person who can't really read NT Greek or
> cope with a real lexicon."
>
>
> > I used to use it only for looking up the citations on B-Greek
> > because I
> > found the transliteration hard to read. (I haven't used it for quite a
> > while but can't bring myself to throwing it out. I find it  hard to
> > throw away, something I paid money for ;) )  Unless I were to use a
> > card or something to cover the English, I can't read the Greek without
> > seeing the English and reading like that is an exercise in futility.
> > I do make use of "Refresh your Greek."  I use it in church with joy.
> > I have tried to read without using any aid what-so-ever but there are
> > too many passages where I would completely lose the thread of the
> > passage. I found that that resulted in reading bits and pieces without
> > context: Not very helpful in trying to figure out the unfamiliar
> > vocabulary. There are many passages I can read without any help,
> > without effort even, but there are even more  of them where I do need
> > help. I make use of BDAG as well but I do not take it to church with
> > me. I can see the benefit of a diglot but it I also see a disadvantage
> > that something like "Reader's Edition GNT" and " Refresh your Greek"
> > doesn't have. Even though the latter two give some glosses, they do
> > not regurgitate it and spit out a sentence. That is something I have
> > to do. It is simpler to read the GNT if  you have an English
> > translation laying next to it, than if all you have is some help with
> > a few words.
>
> If I may again put my words in context, here's the final paragraph of
> the message to which Bert is responding:
>
> On Nov 21, 2007, at 8:56 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:
>
> > I'm aware and I (grudgingly, of course) accept the proposition that
> > some learners find the interlinears really helpful and really do move
> > on beyond them to reading the Greek text without that crutch, but I
> > would still say that the diglot is more likely to fill that need for
> > an intermediate reader of the GNT.
>
>
> My complaint regarding interlinears has to do with their continued
> abuse as a crutch; for those students who can make use of them and
> discard them when they no longer need them, they may supply a useful
> service. As for books that have outlived their usefulness for me, I
> don't feel that much pain in discarding them. In retirement I find my
> bookshelves really cramped, and I'm finding it a healthy exercise to
> do a little triage on my collection fairly often.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>



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