[B-Greek] OUK ESTIN POIHSAI AUTON, Isaiah 48 and emotive level.

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Apr 6 15:18:28 EDT 2008


A look at the Great Isaiah Scroll (1QIsa) from the DSS reveals that there is a mater present in SHALOM.  It might have been possible that the translator had a similar text.  Knowing how literal the LXX translation can be at times, it may be that he read it as an inf absolute of the verb SHLM which would yield the translation we find.

 
george
gfsomsel



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----- Original Message ----
From: Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>
To: greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 2:34:13 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] OUK ESTIN POIHSAI AUTON, Isaiah 48 and emotive level.

The discussion on Isaih 48 touches on an interesting side of Greek,
getting the strength and emotive level correct.

The idiom is OUK ESTIN + [POIHSAI] ME (aparemfatos/infinitive).
there is no way for me 'to do', which I read as a strong statement.

Conrad:
> "It is impossible for the unrighteous to be happy/glad."
> NEVERTHELESS, I don't think that the LXX translator has erred; if the
> Hebrew formulation of the proposition is,
> "There is no sense of well- being for the unrighteous,"
>
Silva (referenced by Pietersma)
> "There is no rejoicing," says the Lord, "for the impious."

Carl's first line above expresses what I have just been
writing into a drill for some of our summer pedagogy.

In preparing material for a papyri (152BCE) written by an exasperated
brother and business partner who was about to go bankrupt I want
students to be able to say "there's no way I could/would come"

The business partner said:
OUK ESTIN ANAKUPSAI ME
οὐκ ἔστιν ἀνακύψαι με.
"there is no way for me to raise my head (in the city)."
apparently with not a little emotion.

It is a simple and seemingly colloquial idiom with some 'punch'.
I want students to be able to say the following
while pointing at an appropriate doer:
(that is, they must point to the 'you' if they say "no way you can come!"
or another verb in another situation.)
(but they are NOT to say the English, or even bother to think it through.
It is given here for the internet. things like this are
to be spoken in Greek.)

OUK ESTIN ELQEIN ME
οὐκ ἔστιν ἐλθεῖν με.              there is no way for me to come.

OUK ESTIN ELQEIN SE
οὐκ ἔστιν ἐλθεῖν σε.                                    ... you to come.
OUK ESTIN ELQEIN AUTON
οὐκ ἔστιν ἐλθεῖν αὐτόν.                                ... him to come.
OUK ESTIN ELQEIN AUTOUS
οὐκ ἔστιν ἐλθεῖν αὐτούς.                              ... them to come.
OUK ESTIN ELQEIN HMAS
οὐκ ἔστιν ἐλθεῖν ἡμᾶς.                                  ... us to come.
OUK ESTIN ELQEIN UMAS
οὐκ ἔστιν ἐλθεῖν ὑμᾶς.                                ... you to come.
OUK ESTIN ELQEIN AUTHN
οὐκ ἔστιν ἐλθεῖν αὐτήν.                                ... me to come.
(And depending on the context, other verbs, too, and acted
out if in a live skit.)

Anyway it's an easy idiom to learn to use.

One question that could arise from this is whether we are
seeing this same idiom at Isaiah 48:22 where the persons
are expressed as dotike [dative]  'beneficiaries' rather than
aitiatike [accusative] 'doers'.
Is it the same emotive "there's no way!" that Apollonios was
telling off his brother Ptolemaios in 152 BCE?

Well, I think that a 'strong reading' is a more probable reading of
Greek Is 48.22, than a flat statement:  'there is no rejoicing for
the impious'.

ESTIN with a DOTIKH dative is common in Greek and I've
seen datives override infinitives as almost-subjects (though I can't
think of an example off the top of my head). Plus, the Hebrew
source already provides a strong enough explanation about
why a translator would choose a DOTIKH instead of an
AITIATIKH here.

And when I say emotive, I don't mean only with a raised voice
and excitement, I would also include strong denial.
Can you come to the SUMPOSION Friday evening?
OUK ESTIN ELQEIN ME.  There's no way I can come. Not
emotional, but unequivocally no. "Definitely not."


ERRWSQE

-- 
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth at gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easier - Progress Further - Remember for Life
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