[B-Greek] Revelation 20:4: KAI confusion ....

Oun Kwon kwonbbl at gmail.com
Tue Aug 19 23:29:34 EDT 2008


2008/8/19 George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>:
> I don't think ἔζησαν [EZHSAN] should be taken as an inceptive aorist.  It is not that they "came to life" but rather that "they lived."

OJK: It may be a good choice. However, there is no mark for temporal
sequence in these verses. The descriptive statements are not to be
taken as a sequence of events.


<clipped>

>  who were persecuted prior to the Flood.
> .
> The 24 elders who sit on thrones are located in heaven as indeed everything is in the vision beginning with chapter 4.  While everything in the vision takes place in heaven, some things are more in heaven than are other things, i.e., while the vision is viewed in heaven, some things in the vision are viewed as occurring in heaven while other things in the vision are viewed as taking place on earth.  In the case of Re 20.4, it is preceeded by the notice in 20.1 that
> .
> Καὶ εἶδον ἄγγελον καταβαίνοντα ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ
> KAI EIDON AGGELON KATABAINONTA EK TOU OURANOU
> .
> It is thereby signified that this takes place on earth whereas the 24 elders are in heaven.  It is further stated that those who sat on the thrones had not taken upon themselves the mark of the Beast.  It is thus the Church as a whole which lives although figuratively speaking they have been killed and these rule the earth.
> .
> george

OJK: Without the text specifying with THE thrones, here the text 20:4
does not seem to open the same scene as Ch. 4.  The setting is now at
a final round up which doesn't have much to do with 24 elders,
whomever we interpret them to represent.

No, those who were seated here has same meaning as 'being given
authority of judging, and those martyred are eminently entitled to
this position. These are to ones who take part of reigning (at the end
of v. 4), yes, reigning symbolized by 'being seated on thrones'.  This
is the group for the first resurrection. Then are two other groups (1)
who are not found in the Book of Life to be hurled into the Lake of
Fire, as their judgment were given to them based of the record of
their work in life (of work-based religions); (2) those who are found
in the Book of Life (which the Revelation does not specifically
mention) will received the second resurrection, which again the book
does not mention but not difficult to read from the context. This
group is not same as those martyrs (20:4) - there is no reason not to
believe the names of the martyrs be found in the Book of Life as well.
This again the book has not dwelt on.

As to judging and judgment, the setting of Ch. 20 is not for the
judicial process as such to determine who and how much they did. The
judgment was already made for them by their own choice (Jn 3:18-19).
Here, it is simply giving out whatever they have accrued and deserve.
The judging by those will be like the men of Nineveh or the Queen of
the South (Mt 12:40ff) to become witnesses to prove those guilty ones
guilty. For this role of judging, does it need more than this? It
would not require the involvement of higher echelon (such as 24
elders). The role of the 24 elders is not specified in the Book.

Oun.


More information about the B-Greek mailing list