[B-Greek] TARASSW/TARASSOMAI subject-agent affected
Iver Larsen
iver_larsen at sil.org
Sun Feb 24 01:00:08 EST 2008
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: "greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 24. februar 2008 01:47
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] TARASSW/TARASSOMAI subject-agent affected
> Thank you Carl and Iver,
>
> I have been following your discussion with real interest.
>
>
> On Feb 22, 2008, at 3:30 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:
>
>> The usage in John 11:33 with transitive active verb combined with a
>> reflexive seems altogether exceptional in that subject-affectedness
>> is clearly indicated, but not in the normal manner.
>
> Searching for classical idioms where an active verb has a subject-
> agent who is affected and this is indicated by a second argument
> (bivalent) I found two potential examples of KATECW in Soph.
>
> Soph El.
> 1009 Ἀλλ’ ἀντιάζω, πρὶν πανωλέθρους
> τὸ πᾶν
> 1010 ἡμᾶς τ’ ὀλέσθαι κἀξερημῶσαι
> γένος,
> 1011 κατάσχες ὀργήν.
>
> 1009 ALL' ANTIAZW, PRIN PANWLEQROUS TO PAN
> 1010 hHMAS T' OLESQAI KAXERHMWSAI GENOS,
> 1011 KATASCES ORGHN.
>
> In KATASCES ORGHN the subject-agent is Electra who is asked to
> restrain [her] anger/fury.
>
> Soph OC.
>
> 874 {ΚΡ.} Οὔτοι καθέξω θυμόν, ἀλλ’ ἄξω
> βίᾳ.
> 875 κεἰ μοῦνός εἰμι, τόνδε, καὶ γήρᾳ
> βαρύς.
>
> 874 KR. OUTOI KAQEXW QUMON, ALL' AXW BIAi.
> 875 KEI MOUNOS EIMI, TONDE, KAI GHRAi BARUS.
>
> OUTOI KAQEXW QUMON the subject-agent states that he will no longer
> hold back, restrain QUMON.
>
> I studied the BDAG entry for KATECW I but wasn't able to come up with
> a bivalent example were the subject-agent was also the experiencer(?)
> indicated by a second argument e.g . ORGHN, QUMON.
>
> thank you,
>
> Elizabeth Kline
Since you tentatively suggest experiencer, my comment is that I see KATECW as a normal transitive or
bivalent verb with an Agent as subject and a Patient as object. The basic sense is "hold on to
something" which is the opposite of "let go of something". I would not consider the subject as
filling an experiencer role, even when Electra is told to let go of (her) anger. You can hold on to
many things, whether possessions or memories or attitudes. I think it comes back to the vagueness of
"affectedness". If I hold on to or let go of my possessions, I am affected, but that does not mean
that the semantic Agent is co-referential with the semantic Patient which is when I am expecting a
middle or reflexive to be used. You are right that there are cases where it is not that clear if the
Agent is also Experiencer. There is a certain fuzziness in assigning semantic roles as well as how
many roles are used, but that is because real life cannot always be put in clearly delineated boxes.
If the verb was about feeling anger, then the subject could be termed an Experiencer. ORGIZOMAI or
QUMOUMAI, for instance, are monovalent MP verbs with the subject expressing either an Experiencer or
Patient/Undergoer or both. ORGIZW and QUMOW would be the causative divalent verbs, and it is
sometimes not clear which is derived from which, but that is a rather academic and speculative
question anyway. The more important point is to realize that the former are experiential and the
latter causative.
Language is not always "rational" and I have no explanation for why a verb like COLAW is active
rather than MP.
Iver Larsen
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