[B-Greek] TARASSW/TARASSOMAI subject-agent affected
Elizabeth Kline
kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Mon Feb 25 15:43:34 EST 2008
Iver,
Soph El.
1009 Ἀλλ’ ἀντιάζω, πρὶν
πανωλέθρους τὸ πᾶν
1010 ἡμᾶς τ’ ὀλέσθαι
κἀξερημῶσαι γένος,
1011 κατάσχες ὀργήν.
1009 ALL' ANTIAZW, PRIN PANWLEQROUS TO PAN
1010 hHMAS T' OLESQAI KAXERHMWSAI GENOS,
1011 KATASCES ORGHN.
Soph OC.
874 {ΚΡ.} Οὔτοι καθέξω
θυμόν, ἀλλ’ ἄξω βίᾳ.
875 κεἰ μοῦνός εἰμι,
τόνδε, καὶ γήρᾳ βαρύς.
874 KR. OUTOI KAQEXW QUMON, ALL' AXW BIAi.
875 KEI MOUNOS EIMI, TONDE, KAI GHRAi BARUS
I agree with you about the difficulty of being perfectly consistent
in the application of semantic labels like "patient" and
"experiencer". Looking again at the citations from Soph, in the
request KATASCES ORGHN (Soph El.1011), I would be inclined to assign
a different semantic label to ORGHN than THN hOMOLOGIAN (HEB. 10:23)
or TON ESCATON TOPON (LUKE 14:9). ORGHN (Soph El.1011) and QUMON
(Soph OC.874) are internal psychological/emotional states and thus
not external objects like THN hOMOLOGIAN and ON ESCATON TOPON. I
would consider ORGHN and QUMON very similar but not identical to a
reflexive pronoun coreferential with the subject of KATECW. The
choice of semantic label isn't as important as identifying a
distinction between accusative objects that are external to the
subject of KATECW and accusative objects that are internal to the
subject. I would suggest that these are different levels or different
types of subject affectedness.
HEB. 10:23 KATECWMEN THN hOMOLOGIAN THS ELPIDOS AKLINH, PISTOS GAR hO
EPAGGEILAMENOS,
LUKE 14:9 KAI ELQWN hO SE KAI AUTON KALESAS EREI SOI: DOS TOUTWi
TOPON, KAI TOTE ARXHi META AISCUNHS TON ESCATON TOPON KATECEIN.
Elizabeth Kline
Iver Larsen wrote: [begin quote]
Since you tentatively suggest experiencer, my comment is that I see
KATECW as a normal transitive or
bivalent verb with an Agent as subject and a Patient as object. The
basic sense is "hold on to
something" which is the opposite of "let go of something". I would
not consider the subject as
filling an experiencer role, even when Electra is told to let go of
(her) anger. You can hold on to
many things, whether possessions or memories or attitudes. I think it
comes back to the vagueness of
"affectedness". If I hold on to or let go of my possessions, I am
affected, but that does not mean
that the semantic Agent is co-referential with the semantic Patient
which is when I am expecting a
middle or reflexive to be used. You are right that there are cases
where it is not that clear if the
Agent is also Experiencer. There is a certain fuzziness in assigning
semantic roles as well as how
many roles are used, but that is because real life cannot always be
put in clearly delineated boxes.
If the verb was about feeling anger, then the subject could be termed
an Experiencer. ORGIZOMAI or
QUMOUMAI, for instance, are monovalent MP verbs with the subject
expressing either an Experiencer or
Patient/Undergoer or both. ORGIZW and QUMOW would be the causative
divalent verbs, and it is
sometimes not clear which is derived from which, but that is a rather
academic and speculative
question anyway. The more important point is to realize that the
former are experiential and the
latter causative.
Language is not always "rational" and I have no explanation for why a
verb like COLAW is active
rather than MP.
Iver Larsen
[end quote]
From: "Elizabeth Kline"
Sent: 24. februar 2008 01:47
>
> Searching for classical idioms where an active verb has a subject-
> agent who is affected and this is indicated by a second argument
> (bivalent) I found two potential examples of KATECW in Soph.
>
> Soph El.
> 1009
>
> Ἀλλ’ ἀντιάζω, πρὶν πανωλέθρους
> τὸ πᾶν
> 1010 ἡμᾶς τ’ ὀλέσθαι κἀξερημῶσαι
> γένος,
> 1011 κατάσχες ὀργήν.
>
> 1009 ALL' ANTIAZW, PRIN PANWLEQROUS TO PAN
> 1010 hHMAS T' OLESQAI KAXERHMWSAI GENOS,
> 1011 KATASCES ORGHN.
>
> In KATASCES ORGHN the subject-agent is Electra who is asked to
> restrain [her] anger/fury.
>
> Soph OC.
>
> 874 {ΚΡ.} Οὔτοι καθέξω θυμόν, ἀλλ’ ἄξω
> βίᾳ.
> 875 κεἰ μοῦνός εἰμι, τόνδε, καὶ γήρᾳ
> βαρύς.
>
> 874 KR. OUTOI KAQEXW QUMON, ALL' AXW BIAi.
> 875 KEI MOUNOS EIMI, TONDE, KAI GHRAi BARUS.
>
> OUTOI KAQEXW QUMON the subject-agent states that he will no longer
> hold back, restrain QUMON.
>
> I studied the BDAG entry for KATECW I but wasn't able to come up with
> a bivalent example were the subject-agent was also the experiencer(?)
> indicated by a second argument e.g . ORGHN, QUMON.
>
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